By I have previously written about Landmark Education, first in an article in which I describe my initial reaction to being introduced to the Landmark Forum, and then shortly thereafter I wrote a piece in which I enthusiastically described what an amazing experience I found the Landmark Forum to be.
I still stand by what I wrote in those articles.
However, nearly two years have gone by since I first partook in the Landmark Forum, and since that time I have had a lot more experience with the Landmark Education organization that I now feel compelled to write about.
Immediately after taking the Landmark Forum I was on an incredible high. The experience for me was so profound that, as with any powerful drug, I immediately found myself wanting more. Luckily for me, Landmark has “more” in abundant supply as the Landmark Forum is but the first part in a three course series known as the Landmark Curriculum for Living. A lofty name that does little to temper one’s expectations.
The details are a little fuzzy, but if I didn’t sign up for the Advanced Couse during the Forum itself, I certainly did shortly after as within a few weeks I found myself back inside the Landmark classroom, this time as part of the so called Advanced Course. Unlike when I first stepped into the room for the Landmark Forum, I had no sense of trepidation this time around. One the contrary, I was excited. I was looking forward to the breakthroughs that were surely on the horizon for me. The Landmark Forum had truly changed my life, and opened me up to doing and experiencing things I never imagined I was capable of. If the Forum had been powerful, surely this would advance that power to a whole new level.
I was about to be profoundly disappointed.
The Landmark Forum that I attended had been led by a warm and kind lady with whom I instantly liked and respected. She was funny, and conveyed the material through personal anecdotes and joked. Never once did she yell, or even raise her voice substantially. This was significant to me as I had heard many stories prior to my participation of Landmark Leaders shouting at participant or belittling them into submission.
My experience in the Advanced Course was decidedly different. My course was led by a lady well into her seventies who wore a permanent look of scorn on her face. She was hard as nails, and frequently spat them. I took an intense dislike to her. At one point, I believe on the second day, I was seven seconds late returning from a meal break. I know it was seven seconds because upon returning to the room out of breath (I knew I was going to be late, so I had been running in hopes of sneaking in on time) I was ordered to stop at the back of room. The leader then announced to me that I was indeed seven seconds late and proceeded to lecture the room for at least a half hour on our lack of integrity, and our failure to honour our “agreement” for the course, which was to be on time. I ended up paying a visit to the centre manager to share my distaste and anger over the way this woman was treating the participants. This was a fruitless exercise as Landmark staff is well prepared for these sorts of issues and knew all the right things to say to smooth it over and leave me feeling like I was the one with the problem after all. Nevertheless, after that incident I essentially resolved to stay for no reason other than to ensure that I got what I paid for.
The trouble is I wasn’t really sure what that was. I had expected something that built upon The Landmark Forum, but all I was experiencing was repetition. It didn’t seem advanced so much as a re-mix.
Additionally I noticed something about the participants. While the group in my Landmark Forum represented a wide cross section of society, the Advanced Course seemed to have a much larger contingent of the “I need therapy, please fix me” types of people. They constantly took up time at the front of the room whining about petty problems that made me wonder how they managed to make it through the Landmark Forum and not learn a damn thing. These people were profoundly annoying and seriously dampened my enjoyment of the course.
Despite all that I did eventually have something that at the time seemed like a major breakthrough on the third day (in Landmark, if you cry, it’s a breakthrough). And our dear leader revealed that she had been putting on a bit of a show, she wasn’t the cruel bitch she had been pretending to be, but actually a very kind and caring person (she even gave me a hug). With this new dose of feel-good, I happily signed up for the final component of the Curriculum for Living, The Self Expression and Leadership Program.
And this is where Landmark lost me.
I signed up for the SELP, as it is generally known, on the final day of my Advanced Course, which was some time in 2010. I did not end up taking the course until September of 2011.
As it happened the session I had signed up for was due to start on the same day that one of my best friends was getting married. I contacted the leader to let him know I would need to change to a different start date and his reaction floored me. Rather than being an understanding human being, he accused me of trying to avoid my commitments and asked me to examine where I was being inauthentic regarding this issue. He made attempts to guilt me into staying with the session I had signed up for, and even went as far to suggest I should attend the course anyway and then leave early to go to the wedding. As the location of the wedding was at least a two hour drive from downtown Vancouver where the Landmark centre was located, this was a laughable proposition. He ultimately relented, but left me with a sour taste in my mouth and little desire to complete the SELP, and certainly not with him leading the course.
Month went by and I went on with my life and I did do much thinking about Landmark. I met the amazing woman who is now my fiancée (and yes, I do credit the Landmark Forum to some degree in making that meeting possible), and we started living a life together.
As time when on, and as life settle into a routine, I began to wonder if it was time that I completed what I had started, that being the Landmark Curriculum for Living. After all, the course was already paid for; I might as well tackle that SELP. I called up the centre and scheduled myself into the next available session that was not being led by the gentlemen who had, frankly, been such an asshole to me regarding my need and desire to attend my friend’s wedding.
Absence makes the heart grow more objective.
So here I was. Over a year had passed and once again I was sitting within the familiar four walls of the Landmark Education classroom, this time for the first workday of the Self Expression and Leadership Program. I had no idea what to expect from this course, and so my mind was wide open to the possibilities. Unlike the precious two courses, the SELP does not take place over an intensive three day weekend, but rather is spaced over a period of about four months and consists of three full day workdays held on Saturdays every month or so, and Tuesday evening classroom sessions. The only difference between the classrooms and the workdays is that the workdays are much longer and have a three hour recruiting session for the Landmark Forum tacked on at the beginning of the day.
The first day of the SELP can only be described as excruciatingly boring. I kept waiting patiently for it to get to the good part, expecting that at any moment the leader was going to offer up something profound.
It never happened.
The intensity and focus that made the Landmark Forum and the Advanced Course so powerful was entirely absent from the SELP. The name Landmark gives to the sessions that make up the SELP could not be more appropriate, you really do feel as though you are a student in a lecture hall. It is a struggle to pay attention; in fact it’s a struggle to stay awake. I dozed off more times than I can count over the course of the program. It was not the fault of the leader, a truly wonderful lady who commuted from Vancouver Island on a weekly basis to lead the course, all out of the goodness of her heart and a belief in what she was doing as, unlike Forum and Advanced Course leaders, SELP leaders are unpaid volunteers. No, it was definitely the fault of the material.
The many problems with the SELP
The material of the SELP is, well, there really is no material. Aside from a few new twists on some old concepts everything in the SELP is recycled. The difference is that instead of cramming it into one fun filled weekend, it’s doled out slowly over several months. It seems to me that Landmark blows it’s proverbial load (and please, if my crassness offends you, skip this paragraph) with the Forum, summons up a valiant effort for another go around with the Advanced Course, and then struggles along desperately trying to extend the experience with the SELP when it should really have quit after round two and just enjoyed the afterglow (and let its participants do the same).
The first major problem with the SELP is that it is woefully misnamed. The name would certainly give the impression that self-expression is a major component of the course. I didn’t find this to be the case at all, unless you accept the Landmark definition of being self-expressed which I honestly don’t remember but I am pretty sure it was inane an silly.
In reality the framework for the course is very rigid and leaves little room for real self-expression. Each participant is expected to complete a “community project” the details of which I will omit for brevity and because they really aren’t important. Each project must be vetted and approved by a panel of coaches (more on them later). Then, during the course of the program each participant is required to complete weekly action plans, which among other things include spaces for the participant to list people they plan to speak to about the Landmark Forum.
This is a recurring theme in the SELP, getting people signed up for the Landmark Forum. The official line is that it really isn’t about the Forum, but that it’s just practice for having “registration conversations” with people for other areas of your life. I might accept that logic is it weren’t for those pesky three hour Landmark Forum introductions that happen on every Saturday session, and that SELP participants are strongly pressured to bring their friends and family too, or the family night (they call it map night, in reference to the “map” of one’s social groups that each participant creates on a manila card at the beginning of the course) in which much the same thing happens. Near the end of my course, one participants had become so disillusioned by the constant pressure to bring other people into the Landmark fold that they had a tearful breakdown at the front of the room in which she lamented that she had gotten so much out of The Forum, and she so dearly wanted to be able to share it with her loved ones, but that she couldn’t do it now because her experience in the SELP had shown her that they wouldn’t be “safe” and that they would be bombarded with pressure to become salespeople for Landmark. I empathised with her.
When the focus is not on signing up new people for the Landmark Forum you can safely bet that a huge chunk of each classroom will be spent by having various Landmark representatives spend more than a few minutes plugging some other “must do” Landmark Education course, the benefits of which they can never fully articulate but only promise that it’s “like nothing else” and “on a whole new level” and other completely unverifiable statements.
But let’s get back to the coaches. I have some issues with the fact that the coaches are totally unqualified individuals, some of whom have not even completed their own SELP course at the time they begin coaching others. Most of them are truly exceptional and well meaning individuals, but that doesn’t mean it’s appropriate for them to be doing what they do. I learned to dread the calls of my coach (each participant is expected to have a weekly “coaching call”) because I didn’t want to have to explain what I was or wasn’t doing on a project I never wanted to do in the first place. The guilt trips were inevitable and I believe based on training that the coaches are given by Landmark. Many of the coaches were missing in action by the end of course, which is just as well as so were half of the participants.
I particularly took issue with the “head coach” for the course, a very obese woman, who had difficulty walking. I harbour no ill will to people with weight issues, in fact I feel for them greatly. But the idea that someone who is eating themselves to death is qualified to be a life coach of any kind is ludicrous in my mind, and it seriously hurt the credibility of the course for me from the very beginning.
I could go one, but suffice it to say I didn’t get much out of the SELP, and despite being offered the chance for a free do over, I don’t imagine I will ever revisit this one.
The phone calls
Landmark loves to call you. They like to check in, and make sure you’re doing okay. What that really means is that they want to check in and see if you’re ready to sign up for another course, or at least come back and volunteer your time so you can stay in the game.
Frankly, this ticks me off to no end. I have a hard time saying no when I am caught off guard on the telephone, and when you do say no to Landmark, they ALWAYS have a response. They also like to call from private numbers just in case you are screening your calls to avoid having deal with them.
I admit I am doing this right now because I got roped into volunteering during a surprise phone call I answered when my guard was down. I do not have the time to volunteer with Landmark, nor do I wish to do so anyway. I have had Landmark overload.
I suppose it’s more than a little inauthentic of me, but in this case I don’t really care.
So where do I really stand on Landmark Education?
It’s a tough question. Really it is.
I would still recommend the Landmark Forum to anyone who is looking for some insight into themselves, and into life in general. It truly is a powerful experience for most people, and for those that it isn’t I can’t see how it hurts. There are still people in my life who I would love to see take the Landmark Forum as I believe it would benefit them greatly.
The Advanced Course is good too, though it’s completely optional, IMO.
That’s where I’d end it though.
As for the million dollar question: Is Landmark Education a cult?
Nope. Its marketing techniques however make it very much like the Amway of personal development. Except unlike your average multi-level marketing company, Landmark Education expects you to harass, and potentially alienate, your friends and family for free, not just peanuts. And, like many MLMs, the product is excellent. It’s just unfortunate their method of marketing it is so obnoxious.
And don't forget to join the 385 people who
I read your article about the Landmark SELP. Your article was really great. It was a valid description of how it occurs for many people such as yourself.
I was interested in your description of the times you described as “caught off guard”. I’d like to ask you a few questions about that.
Is it possible that rather than you being caught off guard, some of the volunteers are actually very skilled in having what they are requesting occur to you as an opportunity?
Is it possible that one reason they are so skilled is that they have been trained to listen for and create possibilities that you are interested in?
Is it fair to define power as the ability to cause something quickly without force, manipulation, guilt-trips, etc.?
If those volunteers who have become very skilled in having you say yes without manipulating you or causing guilt trips are equally skilled in producing results in their personal life, would you describe them as powerful people?
It sounds like you want there to be something else Forum-like to be delivered to you. Unfortunately, all the graduate courses and assisting opportunities require me to pull the course to get the most benefit. Rather than deciding that something is just wrong, grappling with my reaction produces breakthroughs.
Why am I triggered when someone makes a ridiculous, unreasonable request? Is it that I don’t like to say no? Do I think they are more important than me, so I have to listen and obey them? Where does this happen in work, family and relationships?
Why am I triggered by the requests to invite friends, who admittedly I would love to do the Landmark Forum for a benefit I see for them? Is it because I am afraid they will say no, or they will say yes, but not like it, or maybe they will just laugh at me? How am I ever going to get them to have the benefit of doing the Landmark Forum?
Thanks.
Joe
Hi Joe,
I took a long time in replying to your comment in order to give myself the opportunity to really think about the questions you raised. I have come to this conclusion:
There is no difference between the way Landmark folks “create opportunity” and “manipulation”. It’s just a different name for the same thing.
Regards,
Jonathan
Is there is a distinction between manipulation and creating opportunity? Would it be fair to say the distinction is in how it occurs for the person on the other end of the conversation? If it occurs as a guilt-trip or pressure, then it is manipulation. If it occurs as an opportunity that can be chosen or not, then it is not manipulation.
Let’s say I had a friend or spouse whose health was suffering, his enjoyment of life and friends and mobility were seriously an issue for him.
To make a difference for that person, I might try to create an opportunity for him to eat healthy, exercise, and get advice from a doctor.
For example, I could say to my friend, “I care about you and I am concerned about your health. It might make a difference for you to go to the doctor and get on a program and to follow the program. It could be fun, we’ll work out together. Will you do it?” Depending on my friend, that may occur as pressure or as an opportunity.
What could I say if he says, “I know I should, but it’s too hard for me?” Or, “I want to, but this is just the way I am and I can’t change it.”
Consider that “Landmark folks” are people like you who want to have life be great. And sometimes they are skilled in presenting opportunities and sometimes they miss the mark.
Hello Joe,
I appreciate what you are saying. I don’t disagree with you that there can be a fine line between opportunity and pressure. I think sometimes that line is whether or not there is a legitimate opening for such an opportunity to be presented, or if it represents a crossing of one’s boundaries.
In my experience with Landmark, the professionals are more than skilled with creating legitimate opportunities for people. It’s when the unpaid “enthusiasts” get involved that things start to get a bit messy.
I believe I have provided a balanced critique of Landmark in this article and the two previous ones I wrote on the subject. I have sung the praises when I felt appropriate, and likewise leveled criticism when I felt it was warranted.
I believe that their is a certain point when Landmark’s curriculum loses a great deal of it’s authenticity, and in this write up I have detailed exactly where it occurred for me. I am not alone, I know many people who were heavily involved with Landmark, and eventually experienced “Landmark Burnout”.
We can do the Landmark thing and pretend that everything is “perfectly fine and complete”, or we can be honest. I have chosen to do the latter, for better or for worse.
Thanks Jonathan and Joe,,
The key words I read above are “how it occurred to me”, ,,so very true as we create 98% of our own reality, if not 100%. We then hold that in our minds and egos as true , right and real, and usually posed to defend ourselves in what really boil down to opinions.
Strange that for me, one of the biggest things that Landmark taught me was the ability to say “No” , rather than my past-usual of saying “maybe” or even “yes” when what was really there was a no or don’t care. This has expedited my life and actually made things easier for those around me, once they got over what may now occur to them as my new “bluntness” ..!! It also improved my ability to make quick choices … (not decisions !..LOL)
I found that a strong “No” to a Landmark offer always took any pressure off, just like a strong yes would… any wavering, and any good salesman will look for an opening to turn that into a yes.. Sales 101
Great article. I totally concur except I barely made it to the break to get the refund the first day of SELP. Still cannot believe this buzzword fluff-a-thon is a Landmark program!
Did you ever do any seminars? Causing the Miraculous is wonderful and Invented Life pretty good. After the second one, they are much the same and like SELP, they don’t have enough material for ten sessions wrapped around pressure to bring guests.
I wish I had taken advantage of the opportunity for a refund, that’s for sure.
I did start one of the seminars, the one that was included free with my Forum, and ultimately dropped it due to boredom.
Thanks for this write-up. I recently completed the Landmark Forum, which I enjoyed and thought was pretty worthwhile. Now I’m stuck in the seminar series and am really struggling with the feeling of being manipulated into staying in the program and bringing more people to Landmark.
Hi Jessica,
My suggestion is to remember that you don’t owe anything to Landmark. You paid your money and they provided a service.
No matter what they say, you don’t have to keep your “committment” to them if you feel they are wasting your time.
Cheers!
This was an excellent article.
The commenter who equated advising a friend to see the doctor and improve his health to prejudicially recruiting acquaintances to spend $600 to spend a weekend in a hotel banquet room with hundreds of other people who have done no personal work, being barked at by megalomaniacal Dr. Phil clones was employing what can only be described as pathological reasoning.
That kind of thinking is very sick. He obviously needs way more classes.
Thanks for calling a spade a pathological spade. I agree. Way too slippery.
My experience with Landmark is similar to yours and I couldn’t agree more. My biggest issue is that they seem to believe Landmark is the one and only way to live your life. In reality, lots of paths will get you there and most of them don’t care how many people you get to sign up for the Forum. Not to mention the jargon and buzzwords. If I never hear “skilled in creating opportunity” or “distinctions” or “unreasonable requests” or “how things occur for me” again, I’ll be thrilled.
It helped me a ton in my life and I’m grateful for it and the people I met. I’d still recommend it to most people but it’s served its purpose in my life and I’m happy not to ever do another Landmark thing in my life. I’m not sure why I felt compelled to comment, other than to offer my agreement and let you know you’re not alone!
Agree 100%. The “lingo” does get awfully tiresome after a while, doesn’t it?
Hey Jonathan – Really a great article. I wish I would have seen it before I registered for the advance course.
I don’t feel I gain a lot of insight really. After 3 long days, all I was left with is a bad taste in my mouth. after the pressured over and over to either bring people in, register for the next course, and keep calling everyone in my phone book which would then lead to get them to come to the Landmark Forum.
During this session I was not fully getting all that they were explaining so during one of the breaks I approached a Landmark person to help me out with this. I was really disappointing when I was told that during the advance course they are not allow to coach you in anything. We are suppose to just get it on our own, or withing our respective groups. Now the groups are formed from 5 other attendees just like me and we were all confused so where does this leave me? Even more confused than before.
Although I ultimately enjoyed the Advanced Course, I absolutely understand where you are coming from here. I recall being downright angry about half way through the second day and wanting my money back. ;-)
Landmark Education is interesting –I like hearing all sides and to be honest I’ve been on both sides.
Recently I did their Curriculum Module: Access to Power and the Power to Create —I enjoyed both very much and found they were both well worth the money and gave me more insight. The pressure to bring guests is a magnitude lower than the curriculum for living. At this point these two have been the most helpful in my life –after all we all need to communicate and i final had an experiential experience of an ‘enrolling’ conversation —what that means and doesn’t mean. I walked away able to tailor my language and create my world (one baby step at a time) –the Advance Course ends with the concept that your words create your world and the communication module picks up here giving you a foundation in which to ground your communication. Magic.
Thanks Michelle. It’s nice to hear that the pressure to bring guests is lower in other Landmark Courses. That pressure unforutuantely turned me off of Landmark to the point where I doubt I will ever go back, and it’s sadly harder for me to recommend it to others now.
Am not familiar with Landmark, but your thoughts bring to mind the ancient Asian adage that a ladder is useful until it’s not, and then it should be kicked away.
Love it! Thank you!
Foremost love the title of your blog – congrats you are now famous.
Appreciate your honesty and acknowledge your dissatisfaction in parts of the course. You say you partially met your fiancée through landmark – that’s pretty huge! Considering you will be married to her for quite possibly the rest of your life – that’s pretty damn awesome for a weekend seminar. Also, I take issue with where you wrote “I got roped into”. I call BS. Possible you didn’t stand your ground? And in the end you agreed to it?
btw – regarding your “I am broken, I need therapy” comment. I find that offensive, no one is broken, no one *needs* therapy. For years I scorned therapists and their work, last year I went to a few sessions and the results are nothing short of amazing. Also, consider, Landmark can not control who signs up for the courses. In my advanced class we had lots of shakers and doers in the world. Lawyers, Doctors, Retired grandmothers, entrepreneurs, students, bartenders and more. And in SELP one woman, through following with the homework – received a 250k grant for her project. I may even call that a mircle!
I just remembered your story about the wedding, and the leader asking you to skip it, or leave early. I feel that’s furthering your commitment to either your friend – or not. We all get invites to weddings where we’d rather not be there, right? Actually one girl in my Forum *asked* the forum leader if she should go to her friends wedding or take Advanced. Forum leader appropriately answered the choice was hers. Guess what – when Advanced came around – she was there and loving it, no regrets missing the wedding. in the end – the choice was hers – it always was.
FWIW – I found forum more satisfying for my soul than advanced. But SELP is really opening up doors for me, i do find it annoying(that’s my sometimes cynical nature creeping up) – that they ask us to enroll others in forum – but those conversations ALONE – whether they say yes or no – builds skills and power – plus if chose to do forum – their life – and mine – transforms.
While I have this soap box(thank you for that opportunity). I want to say I took forum b/c I noticed people, first one, then two, then five – I highly resonated with in my life took it and got a lot out of it. I did- and loved it. I’m a lot closer to my friends and family for it. More power in my life, more empathy. more confidence. I “get” others more – more peace of mind. Then I started to enroll friends in taking it. What is the result? ~10 friends, in about 4 cities have done forum and all are really pleased with what transpired. The tools they now have to be more free, more expressive, more powerful.
sorry for the short rant, but it bothers me when people say they got roped into something, that hit a nerve, because unless they had a rope around your feet, or a revolver to your head – I’d like to think it was under your own cognitive decision making ability. I’m sorry you “gave in”, but you could have said no.
Congrats on finding the woman of your dreams btw
I don’t work for Landmark, don’t gain anything by anyone signing up – I just stand for the transformation they have started in many loved one’s in my life.
Best to you and yours
Thanks Alex.
Perhaps one day I will revisit things and feel differenty. Perhaps the timing just wasn’t right for me. Or perhaps I already got what I needed from Landmark, and I didn’t need it anymore. These are all questions I am willingn to ask, and explore, now and in the future.
I do stand by what I said though, as it is representative of how I felt at the time.
Cheers,
Jonathan
(And no, I am not famous. Infamous perhaps, in some circles, but not famous.) ;-)
Re : The wedding and course schedule conflict; what was and is available from that moment in time was the option of doing one or the other or finding a way to do both… It is still valuable as a lesson today, we don’t have to kill off one thing just to do another without fully looking at ways to achieve both . In your case Jonathan you were ultimately able to do both as you were able to reschedule, and therefore less to lose, you may have made your choice differently, or thought about it more if there was to be no refund and no reschedule, or if there was something bigger to lose.. This is the lesson I want to leave you with, and I am not concerned for Landmark that you didn’t do the Advanced when originally scheduled. It does make business difficult and relationships hard however when people say that they are coming over, you prepare a 6 course meal and then they change their minds and don’t show up if you follow my reasoning here, and most people blow stuff off in that way all the time. “Integrity” for me is a very personal game that I have taken on, has dick all now to do with someone telling me what to do or frowning at me for being late.
Hi Ian.
Sorry, but it wasn’t like that. I was actually spoken to very rudely by the leader when I explained to him about the wedding. He was very direspectful, and accusatory.
I had signed up for the SELP during the Advanced Course at the height of the “hype”. I negelcted to consider prior obligations. The decent human reaction to being informed that my good freind’s wedding was a conflict would have been to say, “yes, of course, your friends need to come first, let’s reschedule.”
Instead I was offered up some rudeness, and a guilt trip. And what for? It’s no skin of Landmark’s nose, they already had my money, a refund was no avilable. Why should they be so disrespectful to me because I needed to reschedule for a later date?
Nonsense. And the single point in time when I lost my respect for Landmark, now that I think about it.
Sorry Ian, I know you mean well, and I thank you for your comments, but the Landmark lingo etc. just doesn’t work for me anymore.
Best,
Jonathan
I read your experience and I am sorry you felt like SELP leader was being rude. If I ever feel like someone is rude, I now catch myself and try to focus on what they are really saying instead.
In other words it’s easy to get hung up on the tone or the way someone is speaking (not to your liking) but in the process you end up missing the real message.
Ultimately it was about him asking you to keep your commitment to LM and you feeling like you didn’t have a choice ( which was a failed conversation ) but “that doesn’t mean anything” – it’s just something you said and if any other person was listening they would have a completely different experience…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Si70tduFBhc
Thanks Dustin.
If you get this reply, I would love to get some context for this video. Why this one? Why did you want me to see it?
Cheers,
Jonathan
The I.L.P , or Introduction Leader Program is a whole other ball of wax… There is some good content but they are ultimately training you here is how to be a Landmark Sales Force… Should be called the LSF program in my opinion,
It is often preached as the “Number 1 Leadership Program in the world” and again in my opinion, (and I did do the program) has nothing to do with Leadership per se. You are being trained to get in front of people and lead them through an Introduction to the Landmark Forum.. (actually says so in the title, but somehow I didn’;t really “see” that until about 4 months into the 6 month program)
It gave me some intangibles though as my career in sales, and being able to cold call would never have happened without doing it !
Plus, there is probably more “Self Expression” developed and/or necessary than in the SELP .
Hello,
Thank you for the article joe, I left SELP a week ago, and would never recommend Landmark to anyone.
I consider the possibility that landmark delivers it’s technology in a non-linear cliff hanging way ‘cut to commercial, now a word from our sponsor’.
Where the content is closely integrated with it’s commercial. The below content is an experiment, and in order for it to work, you have to pay close attention.
Right now, everything is perfect, I am the possibility of selflessness, self respect, individuality, critical and creative thinking, and the ability to transform any environment
In 1991, Werner Erhard (John Paul Rosenberg) sold the EST (Erhard Seminar Training) ‘technology’ to his former employees. Erhard’s brother Harry Rosenberg took leadership of Landmark Education Corp. The EST technology that Landmark purchased was strongly influenced by several authors, figures and religions. One of these religions was Scientology, and it had an extensive influence on both EST and the Forum.
“I have a lot of respect for L. Ron Hubbard and I consider him to be a genius and perhaps less acknowledged than he ought to be.” ~ Werner Erhard
Erhard was also involved in ‘Mind Dynamics’, founded by Alexander Everett, Mind Dynamics seminars included teachings based on Rosicrucianism and Theosophy, as well as the methods of Edgar Cayce and José Silva, founder of ‘Silva Mind Control’. Perhaps it would be beneficial knowledge to look into
I consider the possibility of NLP (Neuro Linguistic Programming) being used in landmark, and that I’ve become a practitioner of a fraction of NLP training. This training has possibly transformed my self-awareness, self-expression, communication, and integrity. I consider the possibility that I have been subjected to NLP / Hypnotic suggestion and marketing in Landmark Education.
I consider what I don’t know that I don’t know. I am already always listening, and I’m in love with unlimited possibilities.
Repetition, repetition, repetition, repetition, repetition, meditation, hypnosis, repetition, repetition, repetition, repetition, Repetition
Landmark has self described itself as a roller coaster, and I consider it to be one in many ways, adopting how it feels when you are on one, and when you get off of it.
I’ve heard key phrases repetitively being used and repeated by participants. I’ve considered the possibility that these phrases have become part of my language, have transformed my mind, and have possibly influenced my decisions regarding Landmark Education and how I interact with others.
I’ve considered the possibility of hypnotic repetitive language patterns being used in my self transformation and in Landmark marketing. These are some of the words and phrases that I have been repetitively listening to in Landmark Education : Possibility, roller coaster, breakthroughs, breakdowns, trance-formation, share, authentic, enauthentic, consider, already always listening, what i don’t know, that I don’t know, technology, now, integrity, racket, story, enrol, register, got it, I get that.
‘Enrol people into my life, enrol people into Landmark’
‘Register people into my life, register people into Landmark’
‘When are you going to do it? When are you going to have an enrolment talk? When are you going to have a registration talk? When are you going to register for Landmark? When will you enrol your friends into landmark? When? When? When? Now! If you don’t, where is your integrity? Are you being authentic? Not doing it now must be fear based right? When is landmark going to stop ramming NLP marketing down my throat, it’s tough for me to swallow?
I consider the possibility that landmarks content is repetitively and closely integrated with it’s commercial marketing. Delivering and using EST and NLP technology in a non-linear cliff hanging fashion, having me want more, crave more, just like a great author, writing a book that you can’t put down, promised incredible information if you stay! And there is more!
‘Cut to commercial, now a word from our sponsor’.
I see the possibility of critical thinking being a part of landmark. The majority of complaints that I’ve personally observed are surrounding Landmarks marketing practices, and have little or nothing to do with the content taught. Each time I’ve brought up my concerns surrounding these practices, Landmark terminology has dismissed them as stories, rackets, opinion, and that’s fine, that’s their story. I’ve had personal experiences of people thanking me for standing up for the ‘majority’, and who are they to say that? I do however have to ask this question to Landmark “Are you already always listening to your participants”? I’ve been involved since last spring 2012, in the forum, and advanced program, approximately 70% of the participants had expressed this as a concern by raising their hand.
Of course this trance-formed quite a bit after a meditation and then climax of course. That meditation was a classic form of hypnotism that is meant to have a person regress as a child and face fears, landmark at that point became our adoptive parent that we submit too. The majority of the critiques I read on the world wide web surround the “CULTISH” “MANIPULATIVE” “BRAINWASHING” MARKETING. Youtube video’s express such an incredible division, generally 60% thumbs down critiques towards landmark, again, the repetitive complaint MARKETING. The majority of the walkouts that I’ve read about in the forum regard MARKETING. From what I observe, it’s not the content, it’s the MARKETING.
How can an organization that prides itself with communication have such an incredibly imbalanced reputation? What does landmark “don’t know that it don’t know”.
Landmark may consider seeing the possibility of silent marketing, as the curriculum itself can sell itself.
“I don’t think anyone ought to believe the ideas that we use in EST. The EST philosophy is not a belief system and most certainly ought not to be believed. In any case, even the truth, when believed, is a lie. You must experience the truth, not believe it” ~ Werner Edhard – Founder of the Forum
Right now, I invite you to these following links!
A must see french documentary on the Landmark Forum. It has actually given me an idea for my SELP community project … to do something like it in English ;) -http://www.culthelp.info/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1243&Itemid=12url
Information on NLP – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuro-linguistic_programming
The Sceptics Dictonairy – http://skepdic.com/est.html
Repetition in self hypnosis (hynosis in general) – http://hypnosis.lifetips.com/tip/146205/practicing-hypnosis/practicing-hypnosis/using-repetition.html
References on Werner Erhard : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Werner_Erhard
Thanks Daniel.
I totally get it. The marketing is what kills it.
I’ve seen/read all of that before, most of it before I even did the Forum. I wanted to see for myself.
Landmark creates dependency. It’s like a drug for those who are susceptable.
Cheers,
Jonathan
Very interesting commentary from a variety of readers. Each of the viewpoints are unique, except for the continued pressure to bring guests. As a participant, as well as a “volunteer” I’ve seen it all.
I’ve taken The Landmark Forum, Advanced Course, the Communications courses and several seminars. I’ve enjoyed each. I have to say…the Advanced Course is my favorite. I personally got a lot of out of it. Was it life changing…no. But, I got to see huge possibilities in my life. It altered my life view which in turn alters how I interact with others and ‘take on’ the world.
BTW, I’ve not taken SELP but I’ve heard from several friends that it was their favorite course.
I didn’t get much out of the communications courses but I believe that was my own fault. The trick in each of the courses IMHO, especially the higher level courses and the seminars, is to really do the homework and, as someone else said above, pull the course to you.
I’ve read some of the historical info on EST and the origins of Landmark. It is what it is. And while the large group format is a bit odd for some, I’ve found, especially in the forum, seeing myself in others when they share their stories. What ends up happening, for me, is seeing a commonality among all humans.
I completely agree with one of the comments above that addressed coaching from volunteers versus leaders. That happens with fair frequency, unfortunately. As my dad used to say, “give someone a rope, they think they’re a cowboy’.
Addressing the pressure to bring your friends and community, yes…I’ve felt that pressure as well. Its definitely the biggest draw back.
Personally, I heard about the Landmark because a friend of mine who lives outside of my state came into town. The forum came up in conversation, naturally. Ideally, this is the best way for the conversation to occur. I was so sold, that I heard about it on a Saturday and was calling up to register on a Tuesday and, pay in full.
I understand wanting to share the value one has received and I get the fact that it could cause a major positive life shift. At the same time, IMHO people try to “push” or “sell” rather than “share”. I’ve found when I tried to share and get someone to register, it came off as manipulation.
Shame on me… I learned that that’s what I do in other areas of my life. So, a failed invitation opens up another area that I was never really aware of and allows me to begin focusing on straight talk. Being honest, COMPLETELY honest and allowing others to powerfully choose.
Thanks Chip.
As I said, my relationship with Landmark started strong, and just fizzled. Perhaps I just didn’t need it anymore.
Thanks for taking the time to share.
Jonathan
Cool article, and great comments!
I completed my SELP in December 2012, and it certainly was my favorite course at Landmark. I think it’s because I committed to a project that really spoke to me, inspired me, and required me to be bigger than I thought I could be. I noticed that you said you never liked the project that you created; maybe that’s part of the reason you didn’t get much out of the course?
As with everyone (or mostly everyone) else here, I struggled with the whole idea of constantly inviting people to come to Landmark. At one point, I made up my mind that I was going to stop inviting people and not sign up for any more courses! I even told my leader, and he was totally cool with it. He said “Great, don’t invite anyone. I want you to have what you want in your life. Don’t invite anyone for my sake.” I think I had an exceptionally awesome leader, which is another reason why SELP was so powerful for me.
Interestingly enough, when I stopped inviting people to Landmark, but continued telling everyone about my project and all the wonderful things going on in my life, people started asking what was going on with me. I told them about Landmark and said that I’m not inviting anyone to come because the events are very pushy. My friends wanted to come anyway! Hah.
I hope Landmark calms down with their recruitment. The product is so great, but the way they market it is pretty polarizing. I actually think it could go mainstream if they stopped being so pushy about it!
As far as SELP is concerned, if you have a project that you are really passionate about that will stretch you, and if you are really interested in stepping outside of the boundaries you’ve created for yourself, I think SELP can be really powerful.
Just my two cents! :)
“As far as SELP is concerned, if you have a project that you are really passionate about that will stretch you, and if you are really interested in stepping outside of the boundaries you’ve created for yourself, I think SELP can be really powerful.”
Perhaps.
Maybe Landmark need to open up a bit about what the SELP is really about, lower the hype, and increase the transparency. The SELP was not was I was expecting, but then, I didn’t know what to expect.
my last comment for now, as I have commented much today on this blog ,
I’ll use a quote I read, not knowing where from :
“Expectation is the thief of Joy”
I also suggest that you google Shoshin or “Beginner’s Mind” , a zen buddhist concept .
or use this link http://www.ironpalm.com/beginner.html
Hard to do any program (anything actually) and give it a fair “Experience” if we have googled . and researched and taken on other’s opinions of something even before setting foot in the door, and we will often tend to gravitate to things negative so that we don’t get screwed over or hurt , or waste our time….but it is what we humans do to stay safe and in some form of control…. Like “trust no-one” or “always expect the worst” .. Not a great way to live, but it is very normal.
Nah, totally disagree. I Googled Landmark Extensively before doing to Forum, and I still thought the Forum was great after I decided to do it.
If the SELP lived up to it’s hype, I would have gotten something out of it regardless. Instead I came away disillusioned with Landmark entirely. Despite a very nice lady lead the program.
Jonathan,
Thank you for your blog and your responses to comments, it has helped immensely in my decision to not sign up for the Advanced course this Tuesday.
This past weekend, as in yesterday, I completed the weekend Forum; what a freeing mental reframe. Emotional bootcamp, yoga for the mind, …this weekend I feel as if I have put the pieces to the puzzle together. I’ve had the pieces laying in front of me for a while now, this past weekend provided the venue for me to put it together in a way that resonated.
As someone who shy’s away from organized religion, really, organized ‘anything’ turns me off-I am grateful I opened myself up to getting something from Landmark. The sales pitch has made me wince through this entire process, thanks to you and everyone who normalized that experience for me.
…At this point I have mixed feelings around joining the community in my area…I am considering volunteering for the young people forum, however am not wanting to deal with getting sucked in, circumventing the dependency factor you mentioned in a response to a comment. Does that make sense? I keep thinking, as long as I seek community within my other interests– the Zen center, local ashram, my circle of friends–I won’t get sucked in, or suckered in….any advice, insight, words around this would be most helpful.
Thanks again.
Hi Jules,
Sorry for the delayed reply.
I think that you’re either a person who gets sucked in, or you’re not. With the Forum, it’s so powerful, and you don’t know what to expect, so everyone gets sucked in, at least for a little while.
After that though, I think you only get sucked in if you want to get sucked in. I think the Landmark provides some wonderful education, sales pitches aside, and if you feel that volunteering with them would be a good way to surround yourself with positive people, then I say go for it.
Jonathan
Hi Jonathan, Thank you for sharing your Landmark experience.
I did the Forum in 2010, which just stunned me. That was beautiful.
Then i did the Integrity course. That was great. Loved it.
Then the advanced, which totally bored me. I took that to the center leader, and he offered me to do it again which I did in Los Angeles. Nothing shocking but very entertaining, Clearly who leads this coarse and what people are you with makes a huge difference.
Then I did SELP and I loved that. In fact it changed my ife, It helped me to bring up the courage to change my career from academia to Industry. It was really good for me, my family, and just terrific fun.
I am now dierector in a large high tec company. I had set my mind on the Team program. I am now leading people after all. So I did the communication CAP course. That was very weak and not worth continuing, So I have written that idea off.
So in summary, For me it was hit or miss. Forum (Berry Terry) fantastic. Advanced by Adrian McIntire; painfull to see him stumble along trying to fill the weekend. Then again with Jerry Biden which was a lot of fun. Still I can not recommend the advanced, I did not get much out of it.
SELP with Kathy Lalode, wonderful. I made so many friends, Got so much out of it.
Communication course was for me a dud. Forgot the name of the leader Norman something. Made no impression besides that the room was filled with Panda Express people who did not want to be there.
Thanks,
Will
Hi William,
Not the first time I have heard that the course can very a lot depending on the leader. I was lucky enough to have really great leaders for both the Forum and the Advanced course. The lady who led my SELP was also really wonderful, it was the structure of the course which didin’t resonate with me.
Thanks for stopping by!
Jonathan
My best friend was Stalked and Sexually harassed by a landmark education program leader.
All landmark program leaders are man whores, creeps!! Landmark is full of predators. All landmark leaders are dying to sleep with all the young girls there.
Landmark Education claims are all Bullshit on providing an environment free from sexual or other forms of harassment. Please i beg all the GIRLS/WOMEN reading this to STAY AWAY from landmark forum.
I blame myself every day for registering my best friend into the landmark forum “I gave the landmark forum to her as her birthday gift”
She was so impressed with the landmark education work that she went on to do the Introductions leaders program and her lifes purpose became to become a leader in landmark education.
The Worst happened to her she was stalked by a program leader, a married man!!She struggled to function for 3/4 months,she could not talk to him to stop, she finally complained to the Introductions leader program head.
She quit landmark and now she thinks of herself as incapable of dealing with situations in life. She is so beautiful and vibrant has become dull and silent.
I want to ruin Landmark!!
My best friend is from wealthy, well known family. She was so social, famous in the party circuit.
When her dream of becoming a leader was shattered by this so called “program leader of landmark ” = BASTARD he never allowed her to breathe, he harassed her, he chased her all the time, use to stare at her within 4 feet distance. So much disturbance. How should she go ahead with her dream???
Isn’t a leader suppose to encourage and help others grow or want to screw up with their lives. Just want to have sex with them.
She has stopped working, doesnt talk or meet anyone, is on medication. We took her to a psychologist.
She still wants to be a landmark leader, we all are fed of this dream of hers! She doesnt want to give up, we all dont allow her to go to landmark, she still wants to go back and fight it, because she thinks why should she be deprived of her dream.
i want an avenue , someone please help me.. i want to take this piece of information in the newspapers without giving away names.
Please help me!! I have proof.. lot of friends of hers in landmark are ready to talk about it.
We all friends wanted to go to the local newspaper here but my friend and her family refused.
I have started to discourage girls from joining landmark forum.
I pray that landmark education shuts down
i want this information to go all over the world, mainly ASIA. i am ready to pay any amount. I need help.
I want to put this on TV / newspapers etc..
My friends life has been destroyed, am not leaving landmark education at all. Otherwise this will continue with other girls. i want to take action and destroy landmark.
And landmark thinks they teach an education in living – bloody assholes. They ruin lives, families.
If anyone reading this, is concerned and humane about saving girls from these man whores landmark forum leaders please help me. Please help me.
That’s quite a story, Anya. I’m sorry about your friend.
All I can say however if that in my experience everyone at Landmark I have encountered has been genuine and kind, so while I have some criticism of Landmark, I really can’t say anything negative about the actual people.
If you have proof as you say, I suppose the police would be the place to start.
As for me, I have neither the resources, nor the desire to help you bring down Landmark, sorry.