By Jonathan Timar 126 Comments

Joe Vitale’s Miracles Coaching: Hypnotic Marketing At Work

Note: This article is an amalgam of two separate articles originally published in 2010 and 2011 respectively.

Since publishing those articles my thoughts on the subject have changed considerably. I also noticed that while many people were reading the first article (and thanking me for writing it), not nearly as many were reading the second part, which I feel is just as important.

For this reason, I have now revised and updated both articles, and am re-publishing them as one.

A few weeks ago I received an email from Joe Vitale (or, more likely, one of his assistants) promoting his Miracles Coaching program with the offer of a free half hour session.

If you are unfamiliar with Joe, he is the author of numerous books (too many to mention, according the author himself) in the new age spiritual/law of attraction genre. Some of his better known books are The Attractor Factor, Zero Limits, Hypnotic Writing and the list goes on.

Joe is also one of the primary proponents of the magical version of  “the law of attraction”. In other words he believes that anything you want, you can attract just by thinking about it, and anything you don’t want, well sorry to say, you attracted that too. He also appeared in the “movie” The Secret, an intensely motivational spectacle but, ultimately, a sham.

I receive lots of emails from Mr. Vitale as I subscribe to his mailing list, and generally they end up deleted without being read as they can be just a tad repetitive. But the word “free” is like magic, and so even though I didn’t really believe anything would be free, I decided to follow the link and put my name in. I am always looking for ways to improve myself and my life, and I had enjoyed Mr. Vitale’s writing, so I figured that I had nothing to lose by checking into it. I clicked the link in the email and filled out the form.

After a few days I received a phone call from a man who introduced himself and explained that he was calling on behalf of Dr. Joe Vitale. At this time he set up an appointment to call me for our half hour session. He told me to be thinking about my goals in life, etc.

As it happened I had forgotten that I would be taking a day trip to Vancouver Island that day, and so when he called back to proceed with our appointment I had to apologize and reschedule. This was not a problem, and if I recall correctly we arranged for him to call back the following day. At this point it had become clear to me that this was not really a free session, but a well-disguised sales pitch, but that was not an issue as I had expected that anyway.

Anyhow, when we finally did have our session, the representative gave me a little history of Joe Vitale (that he was homeless, yadda yadda yadda) and then explained that they received over three thousand applications per week and as a result they cannot possibly take on everyone who applies. Therefore, they had a two stage interview process to ensure that everyone they take on is a good fit. At this point there really was no mention of what a good fit would be, but he explained that after this interview, there would be a second one that would take place in a few days, and if that one was successful, my application would then be forwarded to the enrollment director. It was all set up to give the impression that I was being invited into an exclusive club, and they would be choosing me, versus the other way around.

My guard was up a bit, but I was still feeling pretty open-minded, so I proceeded with the interview, which primarily consisted of me rating various aspects of my life, such as work, money, and relationships on a scale of 1-10. I was asked to confirm my commitment to change several times over, and to repeatedly state that I saw no reason why I wouldn’t follow through with making changes through the help of a coach. There was a little back and forth banter, nothing to really grab my attention until we got to the question about my savings and debt.

I was first asked how much money I have saved, a question I answered truthfully. Then I was asked “Do you have any outstanding debts?”

I answered honestly. I stated that I had a car loan, but nothing beyond that. The question was then revised and I was asked about any credit card debt that I may have. Again I was honest and stated that I do not carry any credit card debt. At this point I was still pretty comfortable with the conversation and these questions seemed very reasonable given the nature of the service being offered. But that was about to change.

The very next question was, “Adding up all of your credit cards, what is your credit limit?”.

My immediate thought was, “excuse me, why do you have any right to know that? And more importantly why do you want to know that?”.

Of course I knew the answer. They wanted to know that so they could determine how high to set the price for my “customized” Miracles Coaching package. If I was on guard before, now I was in full on defense. But I was very curious about where this was all leading, so I kept up my illusions of interest, and braced myself for what was about to come.

Sure enough the next part of the spiel was about how banks use our money to leverage their success, so why should we do the same with the banks money? It was a well-rehearsed routine about how using our credit cards to finance our future is okay, and smart, and we should be open to such things in order to buy ourselves “time”. Time for what, exactly? I wasn’t quite sure, but I assumed it had something to do with taking Joe Vitale’s training.

If you have been reading my blog for a while, you may have discovered just how against taking on unnecessary debt I am. So the idea of financing anything as uncertain as Miracles Coaching was a complete non-starter for me. I do not believe in spending money you don’t have unless you have no other option. I certainly have an option when it comes to personal development avenues, and I certainly would have a hard time choosing, or recommending one that encourages people to take on credit card debt to pay for it.

Now more curious than ever however, I graciously accepted to offer of a second interview. I was told that my details would be shared with the enrollment director, and that with his approval, I would receive a call in a couple of days to schedule the second interview. I did receive that call, but as I was driving at the time, we postponed it for a few days, and schedule it for this very morning.

Unfortunately my cell phone service was not terribly reliable today, and the call never came through to me, though I did discover a voicemail message two hours later after our scheduled time. This time I was finally given a number that I could call back, and so I did. Had not been aware of the strength of this sales pitch, I might have been surprised to discover that I had not yet been written off as unsuitable for the program given my already demonstrated unreliability. In fact my phone call was welcomed, and we continued with the second part of the interview, which more or less mirrored the first, and involved me once again confirming my intentions, making declarations that with the help of the coach there is no reason why I wouldn’t follow through, etc.

It also touched on some commitments I would have to make, such as a time commitment, and a commitment to be “mouldable”.

I was then given a brief description of the various levels of coaching available, and the dollar values attached to them. I was told that based on my interviews, it did seem like I would be a good candidate for coaching, and that my application would now be forwarded to the enrollment director. I was put on hold for a minute or two, and when the interviewer returned he told me that my application had been accepted for final approval by said enrollment director, and that he was tied up with someone else right now, but that he would be able to call me within a few minutes. I was asked to make a list of three weaknesses and three strengths during that time, as well as to explain my sense of urgency for making changes in my life.

I made those lists, and as promised the enrollment director called me back. I can’t resist mentioning just how dramatically similar he sounded to the other man who had conducted the first two interview portions, enough so that I was questioning in the back of my mind if it really wasn’t the same person. I’m not saying it was, but you know, it might have been…

Anyway, he once again reiterated everything I had said in my interviews, once again prodded me to confirm that I believed I would benefit from this and that I was ready to invest in myself, once again described the various levels of coaching and the cost ranges attached to them (which were, oddly, more expensive now that in the previous interview), and then asked me to choose a level of service ranging from aggressive at the top end to conservative at the low-end. I plainly stated my objections to using my credit cards to finance something as uncertain as life coaching, and was reassured that this was my negative programming talking, and that I needn’t worry because as I changed my inner world, my outer world would take care of itself. Nevertheless I told him I would choose the conservative level. After some more attempts and convincing me to go higher, I was then presented with a scheme in which the Miracles Coaching program would front me an even greater enough of money over and above what I was charging to me credit cards, which I would then pay back through monthly payments made via, you guessed it, my credit card.

I declined that offer.

I was then told that I would be put on hold briefly while he put together a program for me. He returned in a very short amount of time (so short you would almost think the plan was already in the can and not put together for me at all…) and proceeded to detail the plan.

Long story short, I wasn’t really impressed. It was heavily based upon online courses, and “webinars”, with very little in the way of actual personal coaching. It also included resources on topic like FOREX trading, something I have no use for at all. All in all it would have been something I would have been willing to pay maybe a couple of hundred dollars for, but certainly did not seem worth the several thousand dollar asking price. And so when I was again informed that I had passed the “test” and that I “seemed to be a very good candidate for Miracles Coaching”, and he asked me for my credit card number so we could get started, I told him I wanted some time to think about it.

This triggered a somewhat impatient speech in which I was asked how much more time I needed? Things I had said in the interview were thrown back at me out of context to make me feel guilty, and to convince me, I suppose that I was in great need of this coaching and that I had said so myself.

Well I had, but only because I had been directly led into saying those things. Had I not, the interview would have stopped, I imagine.

I decided to try one more thing, out of pure curiosity about what would happen. I told him that I had some savings in a registered account (which was true) and that I could potentially sell the investments and avoid having to use my credit cards to pay for the coaching. Not that I had any intention of doing so, but I was curious about what he would say.

He asked how long it would take me to get the money. I told him that being that it was invested in stock and in a registered account it could take a couple of weeks. I said that this would work out well for me as it would give me time to think everything over.

He countered with a proposal that as long as I was certain I would be able to get that money, why not just use my credit card today and pay it off when I had sold the stocks? I once again explained that I didn’t feel comfortable with that, and that I would rather wait.

And just like that I was no longer a good candidate for Dr. Joe Vitale’s Miracles Coaching. He told me as much, and then said goodbye and hung up the phone.

Is Joe Vitale’s Miracles Coaching a Scam?

When I originally wrote this piece I was overly diplomatic in my assessment. Despite the obvious dirty tricks at work in my phone interview, I still wanted to give Joe the “benefit of the doubt.” The doubt arising mainly from the fact that I had liked Joe’s books, and apart from that I didn’t really know much about Joe.

I have since learned a lot about Joe, and none of it is good. There is now no doubt in my mind that Joe is as unscrupulous as it gets, and has absolutely no issue with lying his fat little face off it is means it will put money in his pocket. He’s a fraud, pure and simple.

No more diplomacy from me.

There are many reasons why Joe no longer receives any free passes or good will from me. Perhaps the main one relates to the fact that he is presently promoting a product I have never used, and never would use, by using a “testimonial” from me.

A while back I was contacted by an assistant to Joe Vitale. I had left a comment on Joe’s blog in which I had been very free with the praise (I did this a long time ago, before I knew anything about him, and long before I ever even heard of his Miracles Coaching program).

She asked me if she could have permission to use my words on a testimonial page. I told her very clearly that she could use my quote provided that it appeared with a link to my website. I was very clear on that point. I shouldn’t have said yes, in hindsight it was really foolish. But Joe’s website is very popular, and I thought  it couldn’t hurt to have a link from it pointing to mine.

The quote did appear on one of Joe’s websites. That website was unrelated to anything my comments were about, and no link to my website was included.

Not cool.

A resurgence of interest

A long time after I posted the original article detailing my experience with Joe Vitale’s Miracle’s coaching, it started receiving some significant attention from a poster named Michael, who claimed to be a participant in the program and wanted me and my readers to know just how wrong my assessment of it was. I was naturally a bit skeptical of Michael’s legitimacy, and decided just to be honest with him about my doubts. I haven’t seen him here since.

It prompted me to visit Joe’s blog for the first time in longer than I can remember, and was surprised to discover a much more candid Joe who was taking the time to respond to all of the comments on his blog, even those that were very critical of him. I decided that this might be a good time to jump in and offer Joe the chance to directly respond to my concerns about his program, and the way it was being sold. I wrote (please keep in mind once again, this was back when I wanted to believe Joe was really a “nice guy” after all):

About being against Joe’s teachings: I don’t think that is what it is at all. I for one am very much for Joe’s teachings. I have read many of his books, and at one point considered myself to be quite a fan.

What troubles me is not what Joe teaches, but that he does not always practice what he preaches. When abundance becomes plain old-fashioned greed, we have a problem.

For instance the method used to sell his Miracles Coaching is quite disgusting in my book, and not at all “spiritual” but a good old-fashioned case of preying on the vulnerable. I question why Joe allows this to go on, as it truly sullies his good name.

Also Joe’s staff used a quote from me in which I praised him as being an inspiration to me out of context to promote a product I never used. I have a problem with that and it was never corrected.

I want to respect Joe, I really do. I believe deep down he *is* a nice guy. But it’s getting tough to do that.

I have noticed that critical comments are now being posted on this blog rather than censored. Perhaps this one will be allowed too, and perhaps Joe will even respond to and make an effort to earn back my respect, which I truly lament having lost.

To my surprise, Joe responded with the following:

I’m sorry for whatever the sales team said to you. The program has been around more than four years but I switched sales a while back. I believe all is fine now but again, I apologize. I allow all comments on this blog except from three people, two of which were friends that decades ago I helped with leads, advice, and more. In fact, they still owe me money. They seem to have made a career out of trying to hurt me. Nevertheless, yours and all other rational comments are allowed. I can’t respond to them all as I am just overwhelmed with projects and people wanting my time. It’s after 5 am as I type this, just so I can find a way to reply to you.

I have to give Joe credit here, I really believe this was and honest answer. I decided that I would be even more direct with Joe, and posted the following response:

Hi Joe,

As I have always enjoyed your books, and this blog as well, I want to thank you for responding.

I hold no ill will against you, However I too have posted comments critical of you on my blog. I have written nothing untrue, just a simple documentation of my personal experience with your Miracles Coaching sales people, which was overwhelmingly negative.

I posted that here; http://inthelimelight.net/joe-vitales-miracles-coaching-hypnotic-marketing-at-work/, quite some time ago, but it has recently seen a sudden boost in popularity.

I would like to give you an opportunity to address this issue directly, as perhaps you are not even fully aware of how the coaching is being sold.

I would also like to give you the chance to address why a quote from me was used on the Miracles Coaching sales page in a manner that falsely suggests I have used and endorse the program.

Unfortunately, if you really believe the problems have been addressed, I think you are mistaken, as I have had several people post comments on my blog in the last few days reporting the same negative experience I had.

I believe you are an honourable man, Joe, and more importantly, I want to believe it.

I wasn’t sure what to expect after posting this comment. I didn’t know if Joe would continue to reply, or if I might end up as the fourth of three people. But to my delight, Joe did reply, and this is what he said:

Dear Jonathan, I appreciate your input regarding my Miracles Coaching program and how it is being sold. I did research so I could answer you.

We do have a two-step process that qualifies individuals for our program and then explains the different options that are available to them. My program isn’t for everybody and unless a person is willing to put in the time, effort and frankly the money, they won’t get the results they are looking for. Our interview process has been set up to determine if a person is serious. As you know, unless you are really committed to something, you won’t make the changes that are required in order to make a difference in your life. Our intent is to help individuals clear their blocks and limiting beliefs so they become what they really want to become. Thousands of people have found tremendous success in our Miracles Coaching Program and have ranked us an average of 4.3 out of 5 in whether the program has made a difference in their life.

I apologize if you felt you were being “high pressured” into our program. We often find it to be a fine line between encouraging people to make a change that they need to in their life and being “too pushy”. I hope you can understand.

Regarding your quote being used on our Miracle Coaching site. I apologize for not giving credit where credit is due, it wasn’t intentional, it was just an oversight. Your comment has been removed.

All the best.

So, what do I make of it?

I am not even sure where to start. At the very least, Joe did remove the quotation from me, which he was wrongly using to promote something I have never and would never use. But as of August 2012, I have now discovered that quote is up once again on one of Joe’s websites, this time being use to promote a different product entirely.

I find it interesting that Joe stated that he had to do some research in order to answer my question. It’s hard to imagine that Joe did not already know enough about the program that his name was attached to. If I was to attach my name to something, I would never allow it to be to anything I did not know about 100%.

Also, at first consideration, his rationale about clearing blocks and limiting beliefs makes sense. However after more consideration it begins to sound more and more like convenient “get out of jail free card” line. I continue to believe strongly that everyone should maintain a limiting belief about maxing out credit cards for anything less than an emergency. At the very least this is irresponsible, and at worst it is greed. And I maintain that whatever the reason, it is never excusable. So by all means clear your limiting beliefs about your ability to make money, but if you are lucky enough to have a limiting belief about spending money you don’t have, cling to it.

I think Joe should continue to do some hard thinking about the ethics of selling his program this way, and truly consider the answer to “How much is enough?”. To be honest, it seems from some recent blog posts that he may be doing just that. Ironically, however, he seems to be playing victim rather than acknowledging that he created the person that he is.

Just keep your wallet away from Joe Vitale, m’kay?

126 Comments

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126 Comments:

  • Thanks so much for this article. I was looking at a newish piece of information Joe is offering, something about a ‘mirror’. He said in the vid it had been left out of his previously shared information. I thought it was odd he would want to charge for this, if he and everyone else had been so remiss, surely it should be given free as recompense?

    This is the third person involved with ‘The Secret’ to fall – Rhonda Burn was sued for millions I believe and lost everything she made from the movie. And the Australian money guru, David Schirmer, has been in serious legal trouble in Australian, having several companies forcibly closed by the ASIC – if you check his facebook page, he now runs a church.

    I do believe the law of attraction is a genuine principle, however, it has been protrayed as some magic genie that will bring you anything and it’s not like that at all. At least now I can avoid another scam.

  • Very interesting read and it has sadly reinforced what I was starting to believe about Joe. His books are very interesting but the man is a marketing machine and the number of emaols his company sends out each day is stagering. I an a LOA fan and believe that there is a lot of good in it and best of all you can get all information you need for free if you look around. Keep up the good work :-)

  • Hi Jonathan,
    Thank you for for posting this info.
    I had my suspicion something was off, then I checked if there was more more info on the subject , then I found your site.
    Disappointed in Joe Vitale. got the coarse on ZERO LIMITS III, which was great but he never continued with it like Mabel Katz and Frank Kinslow which are also Conscious Technologies

  • Hi Jonathan,

    Thank you so very much for the information and thank you all who have added their comments. Now this is LOA at its best. I feel I have been protected from scammers. I just finished talking to a so-called coach. This was my second call became very suspicious when I also received a call from two other so-called coaches. I decided to do some research online and found a true miracle, your blog.

    Again, thank you.

  • Thanks, for the heads up. I hate high pressure sales. Getting third parties involved in his sales has obviously not worked well for Joes reputation, IMO.

    Best wishes

    Mandy
    Australia

  • Hi Jonathan,

    Thanks for this great blog!! I do like Zero Limits and the Awakening Course, so I decided to look into Miracles coaching. I was about to sign up online when I came upon your blog on the same google page – I am really glad now I did not bother following through with them.

    I’d like to share my positive coaching experiences though, if that’s okay with you. I always liked the idea of having a coach who can help me with limiting beliefs and bring out my strengths to be able to reach my goals. So I looked into coaching with Jack Canfield and Bob Proctor… the assessment with Bob Proctor’s team was by email, it was short and very straightforward and they disclosed the cost right away, no mind-bending tactics there. The cost was $7,000 for one year but if you join, you get to speak with Bob Proctor himself on the coaching calls and not an outsourced company. Once we determined I couldn’t afford it, they sent me a very nice email with all sorts of Bob’s ebooks for free and links to his free YouTube videos and a free weekly call – none of which I has asked for during the call – but was very thankful to receive.

    Thanks again Jonathan, for your blog, you helped a lot of people, including myself with this. At the time I was considering miracles coaching, I just know that I was in a vulnerable enough situation that I would have gone for it.

    • Hi Priya,

      I’m very glad you found my post helpful, and I am glad you found alternatives that you were satisfied with. I edited out the middle part of your comment as, while I can appreciate your enthusiasm, it read to me like an advertisement for Joe Vitale’s competitors (who are also his buddies…) and it just wasn’t appropriate to post that here, plus it was a bit too long, and this page is becoming quite unwieldy already with so many comments. I hope you understand.

      Cheers,
      Jonathan

  • Hi Jonathan:
    I keep saying Wow over and over as I read through this information. I had my ‘meter reader’ going off but was trying to convince myself I was just being negative and my own worst enemy. Today I had my second call from, Jarrod, yes he is still there. Anyway to shorten this up I made an excuse to not have the call today…..like I said the meter was getting higher. Scheduled for tomorrow and wish I had an email address to cancel it. Thank you for being the gutsy and common sense Canadian you are. I am grateful that I listened to my ‘gut’ and did a Google search.
    Another Canadian in B.C. :))
    thank you, thank you , thank you!

  • Hi Jonathan, I just got off of the first call to schedule the first call. I’m in the UK and being from America can smell the rats when they are trying to board a ship to the UK without a visa. I reverse looked up the phone number, saw that Prosper Inc was attached and looked them up, then I looked up Joe Vitale’s Google ‘reputation’ as that always gives a good indication of which rat is swimming where. I came upon your blog and was well pleased that my ‘intuition meter’ is on and working. I was rather curious why a coaching ‘assessment call’ would be made on a Saturday. I am a coach and so think it’s interesting that they wanted to input their ‘program’ into my life. Anyway, your posting here is very helpful and I appreciate that there is a truthful representation of what you experienced so I can erase that from my schedule on Saturday. Thanks for the post! Have a fabulous day!

    Warm regards,
    Lisa Pattenden

  • I am so glad that I found this blog because I was seriously considering joining this program to better my life. The thing holding me back though was the money to get in the program. I know very little about the program but thanks to your blog have found out more. I wanted also to hear more from the people about why people aren’t satisfied with the coaches and how they were coached? I am looking for a life coach to help me….. though and don’t know how to go about finding credible ones. Do you have any pointers? My ultimate goal in life is to help others and so I want a coach to help me get clear so I can help others get clear. It is such an invigorating feeling helping people have aha moments…. as well as when I myself have one. Any insight would be truly appreciated!

    • Hi Christina,

      I am glad you found my blog too, by signing up for Miracles Coaching the only life you’d be improving would be Joe Vitale’s.

      As far as answering your other questions, I am not sure I can be of much help. The first step is to get clear about what you actually want coaching for, and go from there, and in my own personal experience there really are no shortcuts. You need to look inward and step forward from there. I personally think most “life coaches” are of dubious value.

      Best of luck,
      Jonathan

  • Jonathan,

    First of all, thank you for the great article. Please don’t delete it, because this dirty game isn’t over — dozens (maybe hundreds) of people are still getting scammed out of their (often LAST) dime by predatory scum of the earth like “Prosper”.

    I was thinking of starting my own mini-blog, because I, too, have a lot to say about this stuff.

    Joe Vitale used to be a credible man, but now he has really turned into a greedy, unlikeable bastard. These days he’s so far up his own arse, he can’t see past his overinflated ego.

    All of his recent material consists of endless bragging about his “celebrity” lifestyle, regurgitated LOA stuff from 10 years ago, and aggressive promotion of his fraudulent “Miracles Coaching” scheme.

    Plus, I signed up to his mailing list a while back, and even thought it all goes to my spam folder now, I do check it every now and then; he emails several times a day promoting a number of “ClickBank” scams that are allegedly “special offers” from his “good friends”. It’s a despicable marketing strategy, and one can’t possibly have any respect for a person who engages in stuff like that.

    I won’t go into how profoundly disgusting and unethical the “Prosper” boilers are, and the unceremonious manner in which they force the vulnerable to max out their credit cards and sell their material possessions in order to pay for the coaching. It’s an abomination! And I won’t go into detail about my experience with these “Miracle Coaches”… suffice to say that those so-called coaches are basically a bunch of local unemployed rednecks that call/email you from their trailers to have a (one-fits-all premeditated) “coaching session” once a month and send you a bunch of useless PDFs and per-recorded webinars that are freely available online.

    I saw a comment on a forum not long ago, by a lady whose sister is recovering from a suicide attempt, because she was talked into (forced), by “Prosper”, to surrender all of her cash to fund the “Miracles Coaching” programme, and is now in huge debt also.

    I’m not surprised by this, because these people (if you can call them that) don’t give a flying rat’s arse about your well-being and what’s gona happen to you AFTER you’ve provided your credit card details.

    The internet is full of anti-“Prosper” comments, so it’s hard to believe that Joe Vitale still chooses to associate his name with a bunch of vile thieves that are behind “Prosper”. My guess is, – probably because he’s no better than them…

  • Hello guys,

    All I read here is very interesting as I’m doing all kinds of research about the scam of LOA.
    I googled Joe VItale and I found his Miracle blabla website. Really look at his face: this is the typical face of a scamer and his video is so ridiculous.
    Second. I’ve been reading THE ATTRACTOR FACTOR for many years now but what always ringed some alarm bell in my mind was when he’d brag about how he wanted to buy a BMW and quickly invented a webinar. Each time he needed money he came up with some online classes. Helloo and he even tells this to people. This should be a wake up call for you too guys.

  • Hello Jonathan,
    I took a copywriting class with Maria Veloso in 2000 and she happened to mention during the class that she wrote Joe Vitale’s newsletter. At the time, Joe had a newsletter, not his blog, and I was a frequent reader. I found her comment surprising as nowhere on the letter did he mention that it was written by anyone other than himself. I queried Maria further and she admitted she wrote most of JOe’s promotional material. Her style of writing is remarkably similar to Joe’s style, and it has occurred to me, that Joe doesn’t even write his own books – but has them ghost written.
    I regret not asking her outright if she wrote Joe’s books.

      • Hi Jonathan,
        One reason I commented was that quite a few of your respondents say something along the lines of – “I don’t approve of his miracle coaching tactics, but I like his books.” Well, if he didn’t even author his own books – and the only reason anyone would partake of his miracle coaching is because of his books – then he is a complete and utter fraud.
        Wishing you the best,
        Deborah

        • Thanks Deborah.

          Presumably his ghost-writer wrote the books based in his idea. There are two major problems with this:

          1.) His ideas are recycled and never really were his to begin with

          2.) His original “Hypnotic Marketing” IIRC placed a strong focus on using strong writing to sell… WTF?

          No argument on the complete and utter fraud part. It took me a while to fully accept that, but there’s not other way to look at it.

          Jonathan

  • Hi Johnathan

    I have now had 2 calls from a miracle coach so far they have not tried to sell me anything. Someone came into his office so he couldn’t finish up the call and had to reschedule. I was feeling skeptical about the way he was asking questions and when I started telling him things details about my life experiences he had to put me on hold. He said he would call me back next week to see if I am a candidate. He is aware that I have no extra funds as I am a single parent and leaving pay check to pay check. He didn’t ask about my debt or anything but i am sure that is coming in the next phone call. I think I will email him to tell him I am not available at this time. I don’t want to be scammed out of my money. Although I do want to clear my blocks. I wanted to ask you what your thoughts were on Michelles comments above. I wondered why she no longer works as a miracle coach especially since she seemed to love it.

    • Whatever you do, Kandy, do not give these guys any money. Anyone that would encourage a single mother living paycheck to paycheck to go into debt to pay for some lousy and outdated membership training site masquerading as “coaching” is scum, pure and simple.

      • Hey Jonathan .

        Need to thank the universe for leading me to your site not a single second longer before enrolment were being called whilst i checked figures.

        Want to say thank you, and stay positive to everyone else who’s here.

        Just saved me some money :)

        And yes I can confirm it’s the same approach today as what you experienced.

        Best :)

  • Hi Jonathan!
    Well one thing I can say to all of this is that Joe Vitale didn’t have to pay a cent for his couching from Dr. Len. This is a gift. And when you are granted a gift you don’t charge for it. You want to help, fine but please do not praise on vulnerable people. Thank you!

  • They got me for like 1500 or so. I will never send them another dime. I followed JV since The Secret and it hurts my heart to find out the real truth about him…I have been online all day and night in amazement of how deep his scum bag rabbit hole goes. Check out the links above and it goes on and on and on…

    To those who like the Idea of Ho’ Oponopono:
    I have been practicing this non stop for quite some time and when one signs up to take a class you sign a waiver that says you will not try and teach it. Seeing Joe ignore this all over the internet was one of my first big doubts I had about him. Dont let that dissuade you from finding out about it as it is quite beautiful. It is reminding me right now that it is something inside myself that is causing me to have the experience of Joe acting like such a scumbag thief. That bieng said its no excuse for him to take advantage of other people in such a gross manner, some of the stories online are heartbreaking.

    Anyways I will call them tomorrow after I research a bit more. If they dont give me a full refund I will be contacting the
    BBB
    UCA
    FBI internet fraud
    Attorney General (even though prosper has him payed off)
    And whoever else I need to call to press the issue.

    Good job Jonathan…and good name too.

    • Got confused for a second, almost though I was replying to my own comments by mistake!

      Anyway, thanks a lot for sharing your story. The plot seems to get a little thicker each time. Sad.

      ~Jonathan

  • Hello Johnathan,

    I am so sorry for all the bad experiences that people have had with Prosper. I must begin by saying that I was a Joe Vitale Coach employed by Prosper for 5 years. I did not do the e-Commerce side of Miracles Coaching, I did the Personal Development side of the Miracles coaching . Over the course of 5 years, I was able to help hundreds of people work through limiting beliefs, overcome addictions, change relationships, Learn how to forgive the past, manifest money, and create miracles in their lives. I coached people from all walks of life, all over the world and I can honestly say it was the most rewarding job I have ever had in life……Experiencing the joy that one goes through when they manifest true joy again in their life and they believe in themselves again brings a great feeling of accomplishment that comes only by helping others succeed in life.

    For those people that I coached, they were not “coerced” into the program, they joined the program because they truly wanted change in their lives and I helped them create that change that brought on a new life for them. I truly miss being a Joe Vitale Life Coach.

    As for the hypnotic marketing and the ecommerce side of things, I don’t have good feedback to give you. And Yes, I will say that I didn’t agree with the sells tactics to get people into the program but, I loved helping them change their lives and created success in their lives. This was the main goal of the personal development Miracles coaches.

    It is true that some people can just read all of Joe’s books and apply them to their lives but for some it is hard to do it on their own and for that reason I would tell anyone,…..Hire a coach and have some accountability to your coach. When this takes place……..Miracles Happen!

    Your Miracels Coach & Friend For Life,
    Michelle

  • Hi Jonathan

    Well, I have just read most of the comments on this blog because I got my first phone call from MC, earlier today. So I decided to do a little research…as MC sounded exactly the same as Rich Dad Poor Dad Real Estate Coaching that I went through 4 years ago. I spent £4,000, on the credit card, to end up with nothing as the type of coaching that PDRD offers is pretty worthless in a European context . “Jarrod’ my coach at the time (saw the name being mentioned in an earlier post, probably the same person) had no idea about Buying/Selling properties in UK and therefore It was a waste of money. I couldn’t get any money back…and so when they called me earlier today, alarms bell started to ring. Yours was the first blog i started reading and keep it going as it can help many people. You mentioned hypnotic marketing, I had no idea that existed and this is exactly what it felt like when I was on the phone with the RDPD ‘senior coach’, I felt hypnotised on the phone. BEWARE People!!!! and thank you Joanthan.

    money.

  • I just received a phone call today from someone in Utah about Joe Vitale’s Miracles Coaching Program. I have been a fan of Joe’s for several years and I am now finally in a financial situation, whereby I am able to afford a coach. When the first interviewer began asking me about my finances, I told her what my monthly income is currently and she asked me what was the source of my income. I told her the amount and that the source of my income was from a pension. The amount is not enough for me to be able to afford my own place, just so you get an idea of how little it is. She asked me about any savings accounts. I told her I had about $400 in savings. Anyway, she told me about their most conservative (translate least expensive) program, which is as some people have already mentioned $2,550. She explained that I would have to put $550 down and then I could make monthly payments of $183. I told her that I would have to transfer the money from my credit union savings account to my checking account. She wanted to know if I could do that today. I thought that was pushy, but I went ahead and said, “Yes.” She wanted to know how long it would take me. I said about 1.5 hours. I decided to go to lunch and I must have gone beyond the 1.5 hours because she called me while I was out eating at a restaurant. She asked me again what time I would be available to speak with the financial interviewer. I told her I would be home in another hour, which meant 2pm my time. It was about 4 minutes after 2pm when my phone rang again, but I didn’t answer because I was driving and almost at my home. When I got home, I called her back and she double-checked with me that I had the $550. I told her yes, even though by this time I had realized that I could afford only $400. I told the financial interviewer this and he asked me if I had told this to the woman I originally spoke with and I told him, “No.” I had wanted to see what they would say when I told them I did not have the originally agreed upon amount of $550. Well, it ended up that they could not accept an amount less than $550 and they asked when I thought I might have the full amount and I told them in three weeks. He asked me to keep in touch with the woman I had originally spoken to and I agreed to do this. After getting off the phone I came across this post and I have decided not to sign up for the program. I was suspicious about the “hard” sell. As someone mentioned in another post, I have also been in sales and I am aware of the psychological tactics that are employed. Besides, the hard sell I felt as if the woman were directly reading from a script. I have known about the Law of Attraction for the last 25 years and I could tell her comments were based not from actual knowledge of the law, but gathered more from a badly-rehearsed script. The man I spoke with sounded much less rehearsed and he was polite, but I still felt a bit of the hard sell. I will continue to buy Joe’s books, but I am sincerely disappointed in the hard sell I received while considering signing up for his Miracles Coaching course. I especially though it was unethical of them to push me to sign up for this program when I am on a very limited income. Thanks for saving me $2,550.

  • Thanks so very much for your article. I had my first phone call today with someone from Prosper for Joe Vitale’s Miracle Coaching program. It was pretty much like you described. I have another call scheduled for tomorrow. My call today ended with the guy asking me what would convince me that the program could help me. I said “to be able to talk to someone that the program had helped”. He referred me to their web site to read reviews. What was interesting was that there was a satisfaction survey on that site and only about 50% of the people who sign up are satisfied/happy with the program. I would not call that a miracle.

  • Thank you for giving us an insight into what to expect of a “miracles coaching” pitch. I too am a fan of Joe Vitale and some of his books and material have had a very positive impact in my life so I was considering the Miracles Coaching. As I suspected, the coaching is expensive and not really personal coaching as it is touted on his site. My personal opinion on coaching is to find local reputable coaches that have been personally recommended to you by someone you trust. I recently had a coach who helped me take my business to the next level. This was not a “life coach” but was someone who was actively having success in my field of work. This worked beautifully for me and I would highly recommend this man to anyone who asked about him. My field of work is also full of scam artists who have coaching programs that are online. Save yourselves the trouble of paying too much and getting too little, find a local person that is having provable success in their own lives. That in my opinion is the best type of coach.

  • Thanks for keeping this post up. Being able to see plenty of other websites complaining about JV and Miracles Coaching, I am reassured to know that I made the right decision in not purchasing the product. I understand not all customers will like you or your product, but Miracles Coaching just seems to be the kind of “too good to be true (expensive) scam” that gullible individuals in desperate need for change purchase. It’s sad that there are individuals out there who are so willing to take advantage of people’s moments of vulnerability.

    I almost purchased Miracles Coaching myself, but found it too fishy that the man on the phone was starting to use were the same sales tactics that I use in my sales-based position… I use the exact same format: find out the customer’s value in inquiring for information, use that value to promote product, talk about financing options then give the cost. I’d rather work with a coach who is more interested in delivering value than in pitching a sale.

  • Thank you so much for this blog. I just went through the 2nd interview with Jarrod (I saw his name in an earlier blog from 2010). Glad to see he still has a job, LOL. Like others that little voice in my head went off when my credit card limits and bank balances were of such incredible importance! What really saved me is I am a devoted fan of Suze Orman and I believe that to max out my credit cards now and put myself at financial duress is actually a limiting factor. Just because you use the law of attraction and actually visualize yourself in the now with more money (or anything else) doesn’t mean you go spend said money before it is actually realized.

    I have actually used the law of attraction once before I knew what it was and once after I knew what it was with no coaching from anyone. I found myself in prison and said to a good friend who I met there that I had realized all of my greatest fears but one. He told me the reason those fears had come true is because I had been focusing on them my entire life. This was incredibly accurate. While in prison I read “The Secret” and used the law of attraction to visualize the life I wanted. It was nothing extravagant, but I am there today. I have a new car, bought a new car for my daughter, own my own home (a trailer but I love it, it’s all mine!), and have my own business.

    Now I want to move on and for some reason I haven’t been visualizing anything new for myself. I know the law of attraction works, I know I can do it for myself, and I don’t need someone treating me like a dumb—. While I believe that we have to move on from our limiting beliefs, I also believe that we were born with reasoning and there has to be a balance between the two. If your intuition is telling you no, that doesn’t mean you have a limited mindset. That just means the Universe is telling you that this is not a sound decision.

    With that being said I am currently going through the Basic and Advanced Law of Attraction program from Joe Vitale. I believe it is a good value and I am learning a lot from it. It did take me aback when the initial offer was $10 for the basic and immediately I was told if I wanted the master class it was $69 and I had to do it right then and there. I said yes to that and immediately was given two more “only good now offers”. I said no to both of those and quite frankly would probably have turned down a pound of gold for a dollar at that point because my bs meter was starting to go into the brown, LOL. Dr Vitale may think he is a master at commerce but I think he needs to learn that having lived through the 80’s and 90’s we know overkill when we see it.

    Bless you for this blog. Please everyone believe in yourself. There is no one resource that you have to buy into in order to be successful in life. I am changing my career to one where I will uplift people and I will do it by giving them something of value where I will be proud of my “product”.

    I wish everyone the very best and please let us all collectively visualize peace, love, and happiness worldwide.

    Pete C

    • I really appreciate your comments. What you say connects to the heart. I like that you share your disagreements with this programme, but also recognise how some of work of Joe Vitale has helped you. I don’t believe he’s all bad.
      I was also about to try the MC programme, having spoken to a Prospering.com rep only a couple of hours ago, but I’m glad I decided to do some research, finding this site and a few others first before securing myself into any contract.
      The truth for me is I am one of those people who wants to find a way to breakthrough those deeper limiting beliefs, and who wants to believe that something like the MC could be the answer, especially being endorsed by JV.
      But your words reminded me to believe in myself and my own power to transform myslef rather than take the words of a stranger, get myself into debt that I cannot afford and hope for the best. I do believe sometimes to make changes that it does require that we move out of our comfort zone to bring in new energy and opportunities, but I think this time I will follow my gut and give this a miss this time.

  • Dear Jonathan, thank you for your blog. I too feel that the Law of Attraction works when you practice it – it took me here.
    Why I came? Because like many others I read some of Joe’s books and I liked them. But the fact is I too know that when you like a book, the person who wrote it will be a great coach or advisor in any other way.
    I am an internal consultant in a huge international IT company. My specialization is and will be “positive thinking”. As I have finished the Bob Proctor’s Coaching (BPC) Program, I thought I could try another person :o) I am kind of a crazy person studying different materials whenever possible!
    Anyway, I have to say, that it wasn’t easy for me a year ago to accept, that I’d pay 6.500 dollars for a year long course. But I did it. I was lucky for my mom who lended me the money though and I have already paid more than half of it back to her.
    Slowly getting to the point of BPC Program – at some point Bob says that having no limitations about money doesn’t mean, that we will misuse our credit cards etc. He also has one lesson in the program where he explains that people have to think about where they can save money, so that they can start living their dreams without spending money they do not yet have. I found this strange at the first moment, but I am grateful I was there and I understand now, that I was in the right course at the right time.
    So this way, I want to thank you for your blog again. I am sure I was attracted here for a reason. If you don’t mind – I am creating a new website for me, I will be glad to add the link to this page of your website to give people a hint of which course not to take up. Let me know if that’s what I can do.

    Have a great day :o)

    Marketa

    • I think I need to hire an editor .o) The fifth sentense should say:
      But the fact is I too know that when you like a book, the person who wrote it may not be a great coach or advisor in any other way.

  • Hi Jonathan,

    thanks a bunch for sharing your experience and thanks to all other people who posted here about what a big scam this Miracle Coaching program is. I just got off the phone with a guy who conducted my first interview and decided to look up online to see whether or not this is a scam. The reason I decided to look it up is because they made me feel very uncomfortable asking about my credit card limits (I’m like yourself – trying not to spend money I don’t have because once I was in a very deep hole) and how much money I have saved. Whoa people, even my mother doesn’t know that! So obviously, I am NOT going to continue with this bologna of a program. Thanks again!

    P.S. I still do love his book Zero Limits and already see some results in my life without any coaches ;)

  • Hi Jonathan,

    Thanks for the laffs! I read the above comments with a lot of serious giggles; very entertaining. Yes I too am/was/am/was a fan of Joe, but have had an uneasy feeling about his motives for a while now without being able to quite put my finger on it…from time to time I figure it must be due to my “limiting beliefs!” Still, I just could not shake the great uneasy & started looking for a resolution to this feeling online. I came across your site, amongst others and I am beginning to see why I am having the big uneasy where Mr J is concerned. Methinks he is beginning to lose the plot a bit as well as losing the control/oversight around his businesses because he is getting too big and leaving the running & control of his businesses/websites/products to others. Maybe he needs to re-examine HIS gurus a tad…? I love his works and have learnt much from many of his books, but they ARE becoming rather repetitive with far too many veiled prompts to purchase his various products/programs/friends’ stuff/etc. I am finding that many of Joe’s “new” products are a repeat/rehash of his old/original stuff, which is rather disappointing and so I have stopped purchasing “new” products from him. That being said however, I WAS rather excited about his Miracles Coaching offer and saw it as something I sorely need to make that much-needed breakthrough in my life and so I emailed my interest. I eventually got an email from a young man who made a half hour appointment with me, which I had 2 days ago. He was very nice and patiently listened to all my stories. I talked so much, the poor man didn’t get to ask all the questions he asked many of your readers, lol! He asked about my work and learnt that I was unemployed; he asked about my health and learnt that I was healing breast cancer; he also learnt that I am a single mom, without a partner or rich family, that I do not own a car, a credit card, savings, etc, etc. He kindly spoke to me, encouraging me as best he could, for 1 and a half hours! He did in the end mention that the course would cost me about $2600 and that I should read Joe’s free book, “Attract Money Now” and learn how to attract the money I would need for the course as it would truly benefit me to have a coach on call whenever I need one. He said he would send me an email with some extra help, along with his tel. nr. where I could reach him any time I felt I needed to and also as soon as I was ready and had the money for the course. I knew nothing about having to qualify for a 2nd/3rd interview, so was happy that I was left the space to decide what to do if/when I wanted to. Reading your posts, I now understand that it was a nice way of telling me that I do not actually qualify, but I am happy with the way it was dealt with. Exactly the way I would have wanted it to. By the time I was finished with the cal, the nice young man’s email was in my inbox, and true to his word, he’s included many links; of Joe’s, testimonials, the Prosper company, and some other encouraging things. So, I guess I got lucky, because I had a good sales experience. No hard sell, no pushiness, only kindness, a patient listening ear, and support. Still, I was flabbergasted by the cost of the coaching, although I must say I was not surprised by it as I know that Joe’s products tend to be expensive to rediculously expensive. I cannot afford to do this program now anyway (oops! there I go chasing abundance from me now! tsk, tsk, tsk!), but even if I could, I probably would not want to take the risk of signing up for it and then getting a bum deal of occassional 15min are-yer-doin’-yer-homework-lass calls, coupled with emails & webinars, etc instead of the long discussion phn calls (real guru stuff!) like I had with my nice interviewer and that I’d paid for. I personally think that the huge price is unneccessary and that the same or better can be found for MUCH less or even free and as long as you value yourself enough to want to improve things for yourself, you can do it without having to pay Prosper or Joe thousands of dollars…especially if it is required to go into debt for it!!! Joe’s own book :Attract Money Now” sez that one should go ahead and buy what you want/need, IF, and I quote: “Write down 3 things you’d love to buy right now. Pick one that you could buy, WITHOUT GOING INTO DEBT OR USING A CREDIT CARD. Buy it.” …IF it doesn’t require you to go into debt or use a credit card.
    “This is step nr. 3 in this book. The step is called “Prosperous Spending.”
    I am sure Mr J had to investigate what was happening with the how of selling of “his” Miracles Coaching, as it is now clear that he is only an endorser for a product offered & run by Prosper and that his only task is to supply some material, be present once a month for the clients, add his weighty name to the product, and share the proceeds. That’s how it seems to be to me. I AM beginning to feel that Joe is leaning towards greed a bit much these days, which is unfortunate and disappointing, although not surprising, as he DID profess to having the goal of being the first Multi-TRILLionaire the world has ever seen. I guess he needs to see it begin to manifest now, I don’t know. I don’t like to bash him as he’s done & is doing a lot of good work, but I do think he is beginning to slide faster and faster off the track now and in the end the LOA will have no choice than to return also THAT energy from whence it came, and so I wish that he timeously sees the furiously blinking warning red light and re-adjusts his course, as I already see much negativity beginning to surface which is undermining the good he has done in the beginning and eroding his carefully cultivated good reputation as a helper of the little lost guy such as he once was. So I want to say to him, “C’mon Joe, take a few steps back and look again, ok? Something’s amiss….” And to you, Jonathan, thanks for your honest and entertaining posts and topics, much appreciated and enjoyed. Love from South Africa :-)

  • This is a great post. Thanks for sharing your experience.

    I have read a few books on the Law of Attraction so I admit that I am intrigued and do believe that it can work for some people. That said, there’s no doubt that a lot of people are getting rich off it including Joe Vitale.

    I watched The Secret and there was something about him that I didn’t like. I was especailly surprised to learn that he wrote a book on weight loss because apparently he’s lost a lot of weight. I would think that would be a simple task for someone who has mastered the LOA to the degree that Vitale has.

    That said, someone needs to tell Joe that he’s still fat. While he may have lost some weight, he’s not a fit man. While I’m not criticizing him for being overweight, I am skeptical of any claim that he’s this LOA expert.

  • Thanks for the article. I was tempted to go for the sales call but I did not feel comfortable because they hid the price of the coaching so I knew it would be an uncomfortable high pressure situation.

    I also found some of Joe’s claims about his past a bit hard to believe. He said on one of his videos that he started working as a laborer at the age of 5! I am sure that he is not old enough to have been able to work at the age of 5 before child labor laws came into being so how was he being paid? It just did not make sense and seemed like a highly exaggerated story.

    Nightingale Conant has a coaching program where they do a phone interview as well. Same idea but not as sleazy, but still a bit high pressure. You are well aware that it is a sales call disguised as an “evaluation”.

    I find that with all of these materials from any of the inspirational sources, most of the higher cost programs are simply audio and DVD versions of the same resources you can get through reading the written versions. The reason for the more expensive programs is for them to make more money than can be made by selling a book or ebook.

    Coaching is a valid resource because it holds one accountable. But the idea of going into debt in order to learn how to not be in debt just does not make sense.

    One way to be held accountable would be to form a master mind group or meetup or support group that meets once a week. that way you do not need to pay anyone.

  • I so wanna thank you for this post, you saved me, I was about to apply for this shitty marketing plan, Im one of Dr. Joe Vitale readers, I love his books, sayings, the way he is thinking but his idea actually isnt a good one, I will never be a victim of Marketing and such, thanks again for this blog
    take care

  • Thankyou Jonathan. You saved one more hopeful from loss and frustration. Been through and burned by one of these coaching scams before and so now I know to look for people who share the truth. Like many others I am deeply disappointed in Joe.

  • Thank you, thank you, thank you. Your website has been a well intended and written article, essentially, giving Joe the benefit of the doubt. Quite frankly, the experience you had along with the experiences of readers are right on. Dear Joe, I’m sorry, please forgive me, thank you, I love you! If you have any integrity in which you profess then you should not be aligning yourself with MIRACLE COACHING.

  • Jonathan, Please don’t delete your blog. I didn’t sign up for an MC call today because I found you. I really, really like Joe Vitale. I like his books. I like his teaching style. But the personal experiences I read here are awful and sad. It almost hurts. Part of me wants to justify somehow in some way that this company can’t really be connected with Joe. That there must be some sort of mistake. :( I already know other great coaches and business folks. None of them would ever do this sort of thing. It boggles the mind.

    I’d really be interested in learning what you’ve found as far as “better coaching options.” I also appreciate your writing style. If your article and comments were along the bashing kind, then I would have discounted you. As it is, it was exactly what I needed. Thank you for holding this space.

    • Thanks you for the kind words, and please excuse my lateness in acknowledging them.

      I don’t plant to delete the blog, or stop blogging, but I do plan some kind of reboot, removing some content, combining other stuff, etc.

  • Jonathon-

    I am full of positivity. I love positive people. I always (try) to look up…seeing the glass as half full. I am always trying to better myself and my surroundings.

    I DO believe in manifestations from thoughts. And I believe that there are some times that an “outsider” may be able to make observations that we, ourselves, are not able to identify.

    Being in a tough situation, I have been searching for outside help – a coach. I came across JV’s Miracle Coaching….FREE…well, free I can afford. Although not being stupid, I knew there would be a cost somewhere along the line.

    Ran across your blog and HOLY MOLY, never would have thought the cost would be that ridiculous!!

    I signed up and received a call, which I missed. Of course I received an email letting me know how few people were allowed to be helped and a screening must be passed.

    After reading all of your posts, I wonder what their response to me will be when I answer their email letting them know that I have NO credit cards and when my bank account was seized by the government, they got a whopping $.08, so now my account is at $0.

    Being in the situation that I am in, I will still giggle when I write the email to them….wishing I could be a fly on the wall when they read it! lol

    Thank you for providing me the venue to learn what I would have been confronted with, had I answered the call that was to be the answer to my prayers.

    kim

    • Hello Kim,

      Occasionally I think about deleting this post and re-launching this blog from scratch.

      And then I get another comment from someone like you and I realize that I can’t do that. This post seems to keep helping people, so it has to stay.

      Take care, and I hope your financial troubles are short lived.

      Jonathan

  • Wow. I had my first phone call today from the miracle coaching site. I decided to search for info on someone else’s experience. Thank you for the honest and non-confrontational explanation of your experience. Honestly I was shocked at the turn in conversation wanting to know how much credit I had access to. Fear first came over me. Then I convinced myself that I needed to answer the question in order to proceed to the next step. So I scheduled a time for the follow-up call.

    Now, I don’t think I will answer that call. I’m disappointed. I was hoping to find a real coach and not be taken (again).

    Really bummed, Taunya

    • Please don’t answer that call. Better yet, answer the call and tell them you are on to the scam and watch how fast they turn hostile.

      I am considering writing another follow up article talking about some better options I have found for people seeking *real* coaching.

      -Jonathan

  • I am so thankful to have read this (after I spoke with my sister who I asked to look at it for me and who found many huge red flags).

    Then I remembered my first call. As soon as he learned I had no money to invest – the call was close to being over. He said he’d – because of his faith in me and wanting to help me – make an exception and send me some information links to help me get started at my own pace. When the money came in, then I could participate and reap more rewards. He kinda couldn’t get off the phone fast enough…”I have another call I have to make….”

    He even said “You remind me of one of our coaches…(chuckle) yeah…you remind me a lot of her…”

    Here’s what clued me in that I ignored until I spoke with my sister – his email came with only links. No “It was nice to speak with you…” etc etc. Then I sent him an email with questions – and there was no response.

    So I called him. He was, “coincidentally,” just doing some work on my file and was about to respond to my email.

    I had ordered the hard copy of vitale’s book, and got PROSPER with it and this guy mentioned – offhandedly, sounding that way purposely no doubt – that he had straightened out a mess for me as my book had almost been sent somewhere else so he took care of it and made sure it was sent to the correct address ASAP.

    Their sales stuff is SO GOOD that me – having been in straight commission sales as a top producer all my life – not only recognized what was happening, but STILL rationalized and fell for it.

    Their site has this great BBB thing – so I looked at BBB (after talking with my sister). 268 complaints in 3 years. WHOA!!!! That’s a huge number. My sister googled “Prosper coaching scam” and you know what? The results are overwhelming and frightening. Thank God (literally – not the expression) for my sister. I feel as if I just missed getting hit by a semi.

    I like Joe Vitale’s stuff. I think the PROSPER book and Vitale’s stuff is good. But really – what’s with Vitale not walking his talk?

    On the brighter side – I subscribed to your newsletter, Jonathan, which I otherwise would not have found!

    • They are pretty slick, aren’t they? The sales pitch is so good, that even I had a hard time completely writing it off a scam, even after I wrote this article. It took a few comments like yours to knock the last bit of self doubt out of me.

      Glad to have you on board with the newsletter :)

  • It is very true that the Prosper marketing approach is high pressure and designed specifically to psychologically guilt trip purchasers into the highest possible payment schedule. The people who work in these places are payed on making sure that you comply with their process exactly. They are commissioned and therefore want you to pay as much as possible.

    They typically claim that there is a scarcity of who they are willing to take on as coaching clients. They make it look like they depend on creating great success stories by guiding you to manifest fortunes. They won’t be able to prove results.

    If they were required to keep accurate stats on how many of their customers manifested sufficiently substantial revenues to even cover the cost of the coaching they would likely be embarrassed to admit the truth. Otherwise, it would be an excellent selling point if they could honestly say, “95% of our customers who initially purchase training at lower levels just demand to be upgraded because our coaching almost always pays off at higher rates than we charge.” Unfortunately it doesn’t even seem to be a cash positive transaction.

    It is just too hard to make a huge purchase on a credit card with low to no prospects of making that sum back right away.

    I work as a life coach. I’ve read most of Joe’s books. I choose a completely different sales model:

    – I prefer to give away my books above the option of selling them.
    – When I make offers of free consulting, almost none of it is sales pitch.
    – I am more concerned with proving the power of what I teach than I am about making sales.
    – People who commit to my program get the kind of results I promise. Results ARE typical in all examples I share.
    – High pressure sales tactics are not necessary.
    – If I can rip my coaching opportunity out of your hands then I’m not convinced you should keep it.
    – Prices are reasonable!

    Prosper is definitely playing a game to cover their back sides, milk people for all they are worth and make it really hard to back out if you are dissatisfied. They will never be willing to earn their commissions based on results. That I can just about GUARANTEE!

    There are easier ways to put traction to the things that are most important to you. Developing supreme self confidence is foundational. Without that piece of the puzzle in place, all other efforts will be diminished.

    I applaud your efforts at exposing this opportunity for what it is.

    Jess Mickelson
    The Traction Dr.

    • Thanks for your detailed and well thought out reply. And thank you for your vote of confidence.

      It has truly been awesome to see how this post has helped people. I find myself wondering how many people are helped by this information and don’t comment for every one that does?

      Hope to see you back, Jess.

      Jonathan

  • Unfortunately I participated in the Miracles Coaching Program. Like you Jonathan I’m not a big fan of spending big money especially with money I don’t have. While education is one area where I don’t have a problem with splurging, the amount they were charging me went against my philosophy. So I signed up at the conservative level. The price was $6700. Being in a position where I had to pay 2 mortgages I told Nathan, the person on the line that I didn’t feel comfortable with spending that amount. He told me that investing money in yourself is different than blowing on a vacation or new stereo system. He told me that others that signed up had miracles happen within a few weeks. He also told me that if I didn’t have any success after one year they will continue to work with me at their expense. Well not only has nobody contacted me but now I find that I am locked out of the website. They did have a coach call me and work with me for 6 weeks and I did have access to the coaching staff online or on the phone after that. But for the price I paid I definitely do not feel like I got my moneys worth. So while I cannot get any of my money back I want to prevent other people from making the same mistake. While they do coach you and you do have access to good information on their website there are plenty of e-books and home study courses and even coaching programs that will cost you a lot less money. So stay away from this miracles coaching program!

    • I am sorry to hear that you got taken by these crooks. If it makes you feel any better, the price for your “conservative” level was a fair bit less than what they quoted me, if I recall.

      Thanks for stopping by.

      Jonathan

  • Hello Jonathan,
    Thank you for sharing your experience.
    I received the first consultation/interview and went exactly as you had described. I guess it went for almost an hour though, and the guy kept talking and talking and now I’m curious whether I will receive a bill for it.
    I didn’t give any bank account or credit card info, but I’m still on guard…

    All the best,
    Mia

  • Hi all,

    I have what I consider to be irrefutable PROOF that miracles coaching is a scam: in one of his audio-books (I think it’s “The Key”?), Joe talks about going to give a “pep-talk” to his “miracle coaches” and asks them what their goals are….

    …and those goals INCLUDED things like “Make more sales!”.

    Huh?

    I remember rewinding that piece to make sure I understood…why would these “coaches” be explicitly referring to it as “Sales”? UNLESS IT’S CLEARLY A SCAM.

    And btw, I have never paid a cent for anything “Dr.” Vitale sells… my local library has almost all of his books and CDs for FREE :)

    The one shame though, is that I find the *idea* of Ho’oponopono to be so lovely….I wish it could be true, but the fact that it’s associated with this creepster makes me doubt that :(

    Cheers! And “I love all of you”! :)

    • Ah, here is an excerpt from “The Key” on Google Books on this very segment:

      “One day, I drove to Austin, Texas to meet with the staff that runs my Miracles Coaching program…”

      [he then asks them where they want to go from here, and they shout out a few replies]

      “This is all good,” I went on,”You all want to move up. You want more sales, more results, and more wealth, right?”

      Ummm. OK. So let’s put 2 + 2 together: He’s talking to the people that run Miracles Coaching, and when he asks their goals, do they say:

      “To help more people! To guide others to a fulfilling life! To use empathy and love to help others!”

      Nope.

      It’s all about “sales” and “wealth”. THREE GUESSES *WHERE* those “sales and wealth” will come from???? ;) Suckering in well-meaning, innocent people. Harrumph.

    • Regarding vitale’s “make more sales” comments – as a straight commission, top sales person for 25 years, I don’t have a problem with that.

      The determining factor is HOW those sales are made. Making sales through relationships and truly helping people through and with what you’re selling is very different than misleading and roping people into something solely to benefit yourself.

      The intent is what determines it. And their intent appears to clearly be at odds with what they purport to be selling. That they’re capitalizing on that is what is so sad…but sometime, somewhere, they’ll wake up by force or by choice.

  • I am SO glad I found your blog. I had a first coaching (?) session, and will have another next week to confirm my registering with the Miracles Coaching. I have recently been following Joe Vitale, and find him so smug, and quick to tell everyone how clever he is to have become so rich after being homeless. And how famous he is, and how many TV shows he has been on. And how many cars he has. And how many books he has written. Yuck. However, there are things that I like about what he says about the LOA and which have got me thinking. But following my thoughts and doing it slowly my way, or spending $6000 – YES – that is what they want up front, it put me into quite a tizzy even thinking about it, which is not what the LOA coach should do. Now I realise how clever he was in finding out about my financial situation, although we never mentioned actual facts or figures. There is plenty of info available about LOA, and I do think there is a lot to it, and am going to continue on with whatever I can find for free, or by buying a book, but certainly NOT paying out $6000. Thank you so much, I am truly grateful to you for putting my mind at ease, so I don’t feel I am letting myself down by not joining.

  • Jonathan – great comments – great warning. My personal feeling is if it comes out of Utah – runaway! Prosper used to be Prospect. Several success merchants are connected with Utah…ie Mark Victor Hansen, Robert Allen, Joe Vitale ect. It does not mean anyone else should not be connected with Utah. Investools, stock investment company uses the same sales tactics in their seminars stating, “How much would this type of education cost in an scholastic institution? We will show you how to earn your credit card debt of $20,000 back.” A similar sales pitch (guilt).

    Here is the “weird” stuff about me. I have been to five of Dr. Lew Lin’s workshops (Yes, I practice Ho’oponopono). I have been to two of Abraham Hicks’ workshops. I have read several of their books. I have studied Qabalah and quantum physics for several years. I, like Mark Victor Hansen, am a member of Agape in Culver City. As a teenager I was baptized in a Baptist Church. I went to and graduated from Cal State LA during the late 1960’s. I have attended and will continue to attend Landmark programs. I like reading Dr. Joe Vitale’s work. After seeing all of these programs – I think “the answer to success in not “out there,” it is within and can’t be purchased (I know. I tried). All of the programs listed above (and many more programs) work. The fun part is – as an individual, I get to choose the program that works for me and you get to choose the one that works for you. Mother Teresa was a Catholic and she had a wonderful impact on humanity.

    May all of your days be filled with magic and miracles.

    • Hi Roice,

      I am sorry for the delay in acknowleding your comment. I did read it long ago, but was left without a working computer for a while (at least one of my own) and I got very behind on my blogging.

      I just wanted to say that I really appreciated your comments. I think you are a very good example of why I generally choose not to throw the baby out with the bathwater, to repeat an overused cliche. There is wisdom to be gained in many places, some less than expected.

      Cheers!

  • I can hardly believe that I accidentally came across this blog. I was contacted by a Miracles Coach today for the first time and I was actually thinking about it. He did NOT ask me for any financial information though, but I suppose that will come with the next call. I will wait and see what he says. In the meantime, I have ordered the Joe Vitale cd set (it is about $75. ) and will wait for it to arrive before I make judgement on the program. Still, I am happy that I have found these comments, and will not spend my money on coaching. thanks to everyone who posted.

  • To all and Jonathan,

    Anytime any one “tries” to make you feel badly about not making a purchase no matter what the item a red flag should always go up.

    I host a spiritual radio show online that I’ve been doing since 07 it has changed alot since those early days when The Secret first came out. Was never really a fan of it from the beginning. I am neither a coach nor do I choose to know all the answers. I honestly check within always to see how I feel about doing something..my motto always is if its not a hell yes wait. : ) Usually if it’s not a hell yes, then its a hell no!

    LOA has worked in my life. But it takes work. Real honest inside work, and for some things time. There is no quick fix to anything in life but there is a way to change what one believes to be true about ones self. And when a person changes their core beliefs bit by bit change in their outer world does happen.

    I have changed alot in my outer world but it definitely came from doing alot of inner work. There are many books, audio tapes for sale and in the library that can assist any individual.

    This all reminds me of the big mega churches we have today and the tele-evangelists. Give me your money, and I will show you how to have the world on a silver platter. Anytime any “coach” has asked me for money to assist me to change my life I’ve run for the hills. I am sure there are many who have had great success with coaches. I just find it to be to easy to hand over my dollars to someone who is going to now show me the way. Guru’s and coaches always seem to me to want the end to be dollars and cents.

    Many have been assisted from our radio show and it costs nothing to listen. I may suggest a book that has assisted me..and if it resonates with the listener I encourage them to pick it up for themselves. The thing I find quite unsettling is NO ONE can really know for sure what a person wants to be do or have except that specific individual. I always tell my listeners to trust their gut, trust their innate intuition, I’ve found for myself it is never wrong. It may take me sometimes through some rough neighborhoods but the end result is always one where I’ve gain great knowledge about myself and others.

    Thank you for the informative blog and comments from others. May you all find the success, love, and life’s journey you decide is right for you.
    Sydney : )

  • Thanks for this post, Jonathan and all those who have commented on it. I had a first phone call from these people and will have a second one, where I will have to tell them that I will decline this offer.

    I would appear that the information given in this Miracles Coaching Program can no doubt be obtained for free (or at least for cheap) elsewhere, so one should obviously do that.

  • Thank you so much for your perspective on how unethical it is to max out your credit card to pay for something that is beyond your means. If Miracles Coaching is really a miracle for people, there should be no pricetag associated to it. Ironically, I had my “free” session yesterday and they are calling me back for the 2nd session tomorrow. I did not feel comfortable about the credit limit question either. In the past year at age 27, I lost my two jobs while going through an advance stage of cancer treatments and was rejected by medical disability. Relying on my husbands income and the generosity of the community and friends and family–I do not have all this money stashed away because frankly “cancer” is a very expensive disease! I thought this program sounded intriguing and I love Joe’s books so I looked into it. I already have an affordable life coach who already has worked miracles into my life for hour session every two weeks–but because of Joe’s name attached to this group, I wanted even better results. I am sure the intention is there but again I agree with everyone else–it sure turns someone off when help depends on how much money you have?? Isn’t this this the type of thing Joe preaches about? We are all worth it regardless of our credit limit, so with that being said it should be equal for everyone at a fair price. I cringed at the word credit card and then I was asked how much savings I had….etc. I am currently in PR, marketing and sales and I understand money is a hard topic to bring up with most people. However, strategically planning how your coaching is worked through this program at the rate of your credit limit, is quite heartless. A person with a $100,000 limit is no better than a person with a $200 limit.

    • Well, first of all let me say that I am very sorry about your struggle with cancer. I do hope you are recovering!

      I am sickened that you lost jobs because you had cancer, how can that even happen? That is beyond disgusting!

      As for Miracles Coaching:

      The more I learn about Joe Vitale, the less I like the man. I certainly hope you will not go through with his sham of a coaching program!

  • Jonathan, I applaud you for the respectful but resolute way you engaged Joe on his blog regarding the Miracles Coaching boiler-room sales tactics. I noticed that when he responded to your claims, Joe said he “did some research” (implying that he was totally unaware of any high-pressure sales). From there his response pretty much followed the classic “we-do-this-for-people’s-own-good” defense, with a strong implication that the pushiness of the sales reps was merely a matter of (mis)perception. There was also the standard line about the amount of money being the factor that determines one’s commitment to self-improvement, the logic being that if you don’t commit a lot of your money (or your credit line), you’re simply not serious and you won’t follow through with your resolutions to make your life better.

    It does seem to be true that people who commit a lot of money to something are more likely to stick with it, but unfortunately they do so even if it ISN’T really helping, and, in some cases, even if it is hurting (a tragically extreme example of the latter being James Ray’s Death Lodge). Putting a lot of time and money into a product or service can also make people more reluctant to even admit to themselves, much less to others, that it was a waste.

    This bit from Joe’s comment to you, Jonathan, is classic New-Wage sales talk:
    “…Our intent is to help individuals clear their blocks and limiting beliefs so they become what they really want to become. Thousands of people have found tremendous success in our Miracles Coaching Program and have ranked us an average of 4.3 out of 5 in whether the program has made a difference in their life.

    “I apologize if you felt you were being ‘high pressured’ into our program. We often find it to be a fine line between encouraging people to make a change that they need to in their life and being ‘too pushy’. I hope you can understand.”
    ##

    Translation:
    “We’re pushing you to max out your credit cards and go into debt for the rest of your life in order to help you clear your blocks and limiting beliefs and become what you really want to become.”

    I don’t buy it (literally).

    That seems to be taken straight from Boiler-Room Sales Tactics 101. If you read Salty Droid’s blog you may know that Prosper Inc., Joe’s partner in Miracles Coaching, is one of numerous boiler rooms that happen to be clustered in the business-friendly state of Utah (here’s one interesting link http://saltydroid.info/mark-shurtleff-attorney-general-of-mlm).

    The point is that the high-pressure sales tactics (and other dodgy practices such as forced continuity) seem to be very much a part of the way Prosper and similar companies do business. The FTC has cracked down on some of these practices but businesses are still apparently doing whatever they can get away with, and people are still complaining. I am only speculating about this, but I imagine that when a company such as Prosper enters into a partnership with an individual self-help guru, the terms of the contract – including the way the business is structured and the way sales are handled – are spelled out very clearly. And since Joe has made more than one trip to Utah to visit with the Prosper folks, I don’t see how he could be unaware of the way they handle things. Miracles Coaching is Joe Vitale’s brand, and even though it would be unrealistic to expect him to personally coach thousands of people individually, it is still his responsibility to know exactly what other people are doing in his name.

    Alas, it seems that the only way this business model can sustain itself is to aggressively recruit new and repeat customers all the time and persuade them that they should spend every last cent they don’t have, while encouraging them to think of it as an “investment.” In this regard Miracles Coaching is no different from hundreds of other branded schemes. Joe does his part by promoting the service every day, sometimes several times a day, via blog posts and email blasts. And then the Prosper sales machine takes over. It’s win-win… well, for everyone except the client with the maxed-out credit card.

  • Hey Jonathan,

    Saw recent your comments over on Joe’s blog on how much is enough. You mentioned critical comments are now being posted over there, however, Vitale is refusing to post mine. Perhaps he’s upset as I did mention K Trudeau and Osho.

    I basically challenged him on the theory of ho’oponopono, that if the claim that Dr Len healed those patients is true, that means that LOA cannot work 100% of the time, because we can be affected by the thoughts of others. He replied that Dr Len didn’t change the thinking of those patients, but instead changed his own thoughts. He said this was a big difference.

    I replied, which didn’t get posted, but I wrote a similar follow up, which Joe also wouldn’t publish:

    “Like I said, unpublished: And a big difference it is at that.

    If Dr Len didn’t affect those patients, why is he credited with their cure?

    If he did cure them, or change something that caused them to be cured, well then you just can’t make those claims about LOA working 100% of the time. Other forces are affecting us now aren’t they?”

    Seems Joe wants to have it both ways here. Dr Len didn’t affect their thoughts, but changed his own thoughts, which somehow cured the criminals, but what others think doesn’t affect us…maybe you can figure it out, because I can’t.

    Also, where does Joe think all this “abundance” is going to come from? All his followers will need their own income streams, and any of his followers may have their own followers who want to develop their own income stream. Eventually, we’d just get back to where we are now, working and looking for that secret of all secrets. Which doesn’t exist anyway.

    Oh and Trish – go read a person named Arun’s comments on Joe’s blog. She was about to shell out $6800 without having a written contract up front, and decided to pull out. See the blog What’s Naturally You.

    • I read the article and blog and have decided that I’m not going to go through with the Miracles Coaching as well. I didn’t really feel very comfortable when I was asked how much credit I have left on my credit card and felt more uneasy reading what people have to say about it.

      I do like Joe’s books, but I’m going to stay away from Miracles Coaching. Thanks :-)

      • Hello Trish.

        I am once again glad to know I saved someone from maxing out their credit cards for this program.

        I am willing to accept that the program might actually be valuable, as Michael stated above, however the unethical sales methods are not excusable in my book.

        Thanks for stopping by, Trish, I hope to be seeing you again.

        :)

    • Hi MZ,

      Just want to mention that I do prefer people to use their real name rather than initials, but I’ll let is slide this time.

      I am not against Joe’s teachings, but I am against the way he represents them. The law of attraction is, of course, not a law, but a mindset. It’s a simple as this: You can not achieve what you don’t believe. Therefore you believe that there is never enough and you will always be poor, then that’s about as much as you can ever expect. With this mindset you can’t even win the lottery, because if you don’t believe you can win it, you will never buy the ticket.

      On the flip side, you cannot attract winning the lottery like magic, but if you believe you can win, you have just as much chance as anyone as long as you buy the ticket.

      We can extend this philosophy to nearly anything, but we are still constrained by the real laws of the universe, our countries and our cities, and whether it happens or not is not simply a matter of “belief”.

      So the law of attraction is not a lie, IMO, but it is not the whole story. Even Joe Vitale would have a hard time denying this.

      I am not familiar with the controversy you have referenced above, so I am not really in the position to comment on it. It’s also a little off topic.

      Welcome to The Limelight, MZ.

  • I had just got off the phone with my free session and have an interview Wednesday to determine whether or not I qualify to be in the program. When I was asked what my credit limit was, a bell went off in my head like why would they need to know this? They were very nice and the conversation went well, but then I wondered if they charge a flat fee or go by how much credit is left on my credit card so I did a search and found your page. I was under the impression there would be one on one coaching so that I can improve the areas in my life that need improving. From what I’ve read from others, it really depends on the coach you get so that one can benefit from the program. Now, I’m just wondering whether I should do it or not. I just know that I want a coach to actually help me rather than just call to check and see if I’m doing my homework or not. That’s too much money to lose for that. I’ll think more about it…..

  • wow. I’m a little bit taken back by your response. I don’t have a website to link back to, but I’m considering creating one. One thing stopping me is the fact that I don’t have very “thick skin” so to speak.
    I read many blogs occasionally, and a few blogs regularly. I leave quite a bit of comments on those blogs (www.stangardnermd.com, http://www.chinasmack.com, http://www.lovelovechina.com, http://www.chineseherbblog.net, http://www.deepesthealth.com, budtheteacher.com/blog/, and WAY too much time on espn.go.com. I send wasted emails to Bill Simmons and Rick Reily). If you really want to check out the nature of my comments you can find them there– all under the name Michael. I don’t feel inclined to provide any other evidence of my “credibility.” I’m not sure what you think I might have to gain.
    It is neither here nor there. As I said earlier today, I felt bad when some incorrect information (or at least what I consider to be an incorrect portrayal) regarding coaching almost stopped my friend from making a very positive step for herself. I wonder how many others are stopped by reading the negative information. Anyway, I’m kindof tired about this one issue, each time I think I’ve said my piece and can move on I feel compelled to reply to your replies.
    You are not going to get any arguments from me about the manipulative sales tactics.

    • Hello Michael,

      If I offended you, I sincerely apologize. I hope you can understand why I would have the inclination to be somewhat skeptical of your comments, given the sharp contrast between them and others on the article. Its not personal in any way, I would simple feel negligent to me readers if I didn’t do my best to ensure the legitimacy of anything posted on my blog, either by myself or others.

      I don’t have time to check out your links just now, but I certainly will. And please accept my assurance that your input is valued here, and I DO welcome the dialog. I hope that my bluntness and caution will not discourage you from reading and participating on my blog in the future.

      I do want to clarify that my criticism of Joe Vitale’s program stems entirely from the sleazy sales practices and the encouragement of people racking up credit card debt in the name of “progress”. In my mind this is a deal breaker and I believe I am right to criticize it. Therefore I do not believe any misinformation has been conveyed on this page.

      I would really encourage you to go ahead and create that website. I, for one, would be very interested in reading it.

      All the best,
      Jonathan

  • I just started in Miracles coaching. I did not do the conservative program ($550 down? wow, that is less than I was told…) so I can’t speak for the quality on that level. The sale was very hard, I went over and above my comfort zone to get started (not used to carrying a balance on my credit card), and I have been quite satisfied with the quality of my coaching calls. I don’t know how other people are doing in the program, but we do have weekly “mastermind” calls and it feels like everyone is pretty happy with very positive changes.
    I do think the sales approach is awful, at best. I was so excited at first, so scared when it came to the money, and they really had to manipulate me to finally get started. But in all fairness, I’m glad they did.
    PS: the credit card is already paid off, in a way that I feel is nothing short of miraculous. Others might say it was coincidental, but I had a car I was trying to sell for over 6 months, never received one phone call for my ads. Whether or not it was because I began applying the tools that my coach gave me or not, within a couple of weeks I had three people call about the car. I ended up selling it for more than I asked– and more than enough to cover the cost of the coaching.
    I don’t have an agenda, I just thought I’d share my positive experience, because your blog doesn’t appear to be vitriolic, and I thought you and your readers might want to know that there is at least one happy miracles coaching student.

    • Hi Michael,

      First of all I would like to thank you for your comments. I am more than happy to let my readers share a different point of view. Let me respond to a few of your points.

      First, regarding the difference in price. That’s how it works. They work you over on the phone until they discover how much “purchasing power” you have. Purchasing power in this case being synonymous with “credit card limit”. Once they know that they set the price accordingly in order to ensure they can extract the maximum amount of money out of you. It’s a genius scheme, and a brilliant example of hypnotic marketing indeed.

      I am really glad that you were lucky enough to get your credit card paid off so quickly. I refrain from judging whether it was a miracle or not, but it was certainly fortunate.

      • I receive a phone call from my coach each week at our scheduled time. I was told in the sales call that these would be 45-minute sessions, however we have not yet had a call shorter than an hour. I am not charged extra for the extra time.
        In addition to our weekly phone calls, I have a phone number that I call anytime, all day, and get answers to questions I might have when the coach is not available. I can also email and chat online with my coach or other coaches anytime during their business hours 8:00 AM to 8:00 PM Monday through Friday. I also have webinars, online classes, and written materials that are available in my members’ area.
        It would be difficult for me to overstate what a value this program has been to me since I got started several months ago. I gained clarity of purpose, that lead to me leaving my job as a high school teacher to focus on my true passions. My wife and I miraculously got out of debt. My relationship with my wife has improved beyond description, and my strained relationship with my brother is even slowly healing.
        Each week we have a mastermind class. Each month Joe Vitale holds a teleseminar with all of his students. I have been connected to several other people in the program, and they are all very much alive and excited about changes in their lives.
        In short, I feel like I have awakened, I can have faith in myself and in my inspired ideas, and things work out when I act on that clarity.
        Several have commented that I am happier and that something is different, and when they ask, so far I have always attributed my change to miracles coaching. Last week a friend of mine signed up for miracles coaching, but then after the first phone call googled “miracles coaching reviews” online, and found your article. She decided not to be scammed, and refused to answer the phone when they called her back.
        I feel bad because she really could use the kind of help I’ve received. My experience has been so different from what has been described on your blog, that either there is an “A” team and a “B” team, and everyone I associate with was lucky enough to work with a great coach (“A” team), or else we are simply talking about two completely separate programs here.

        Edit: I moved the following comment here from another post as it was off topic and that post and should have been included here -Jonathan

        I just left another comment on your miracles coaching article explaining that a friend of mine wanted to get started in Miracles Coaching because of my experience with my coach. She searched for Miracles Coaching reviews and found your blog. Then she asked me about it. I have to admit I was completely shocked with what I found there. I am feeling better now after talking with my friend (who has decided to join miracles coaching, by the way), she is a physical trainer, and she reminded me that she gets radically different results out of different students– not because she works harder with some than with others, but because of the willingness of the students to work through their pain and resistance. That really makes sense to me.
        By the way, I’m impressed that you replied so quickly! I guess I need to log in to your blog more often to see your replies. I think you’ve got some great ideas.

        • Hello again, Michael.

          In this world I believe that their are two types of people, those who put their trust in faith, and those who weight the evidence and arrive at a decision through logic.

          Which do you think I am?

          I won’t make you guess; I am the latter. While I am prepared to give people the benefit of the doubt, I will now continue to be blind to that doubt once it mounts. And frankly, Michael, you are at this point leaving me with serious doubts about your credibility.

          Here’s why:

          1.) You are excessively complimentary. You are not content to simply refute what I say with an anecdote about your own experience, you bookend your disagreement with praise for me. Why? Oh I know that I am a very impressive guy and all, but not so much that I deserve as many affirmations of such from you. When a guy leaves as many comments on my blog as you have, especially in such a short time I have to wonder why. The last guy to do that hated my guts, but you seem to really like me, so why is that?

          Your are not here for links, because you don’t include one in your posts. And while I was more than willing to consider that you were simply a happy Miracles Coaching customer who found my blog by accident, with each additional comment, some now appearing on posts not even related to MC, that scenario becomes increasingly hard to believe. People, in general, will often go out of their way to express displeasure with a product, but rarely will they bother to share their positive experience unless there is something in it for them, or they have been directly requested to do so.

          With all of that said, I am not accusing you of anything, just being fair to you in sharing my suspicions so that you have an opportunity to provide some evidence in the absence of faith.

          Finally I would like to mention that my beef with MC was not about the product, but the way it is being sold. I cannot personally speak to quality of the product, only to how it is sold, and I maintain that it is reprehensible. No one should ever be asked to max out their credit cards for anything, and that in my mind is a non-negotiable fact.

          I am glad your are happy with Miracles Coaching. I still believe it is a very poor value to say the least, and see now reason to recommend it, especially with the availability of better and much less expensive options that are sans sleazy sales tactics.

  • I made a huge mistake!! I joined Joe Vitale”s coaching program. I was very clear in my so called interviews to make sure they could give me what I was looking for. What I was after and that was one on one coaching as I knew this is what I felt I needed to progress to the next level.

    Well I was told I would have a live session once a week with a coach for twelve weeks and What did I receive a 15 minute call in week one and two to make sure I was doing my homework. NO COACHING which I find very interesting because in some of Mr Vitales own recording that you to listen to he himself stresses the importance of a coach as they are on the outside and able to identify your blocks or limiting beliefs.

    I completely agree Joe this is why I singed up. I was not sold buy the sales process they use I have herd it before. However I was sold on Dr. Joe Vitale and had complete faith in him! sham-on me.

    Yes I spent several thousand dollars that my family could not afford to just trow away. I can and have found better self help recordings for little or no cost from professional people that truly want to help others for more reasons than money.

    Honestly I could give an information over load on this program . But I need to get clear of it now and move on. How’s that for a program that is supposed to help you clean and clear!!! STAY CLEAR

    • Hello Steve,

      I am really sorry to hear about another person taken by this ridiculous scam Joe is running.

      I can really relate to how disappointed you must be to realize that Joe’s carefully crafted nice guy image, is just that, an image, with very little to do with his true character.

      Joe is a salesman, nothing more, an a dishonest one at that.

      Jonathan

  • I’ve been a fan of Joe Vitale’s material for some time now. I was even around on his list when he announced his first ever coaching program. I think this one would have been the one to get on because they did get some really good results. I’m just trying to remember the name of the company that was running it – I don’t recall it being Prosper inc. Joe did mention it on one of his audios though.

    Anyway I think since that time it’s been watered down for the masses. I mean seriously they must get hundreds of applications a week. And where are all the experienced coaches going to come from?

    I’ve been a bit of a sceptic of the coaching industry for a while (not that I don’t think that having a coach isn’t a good thing). My problem with it is that it’s a bit like the blind leading the blind. How can someone that hasn’t ever been “successful” and lived an inspired life really help you to live that life? I find this a bit of a stretch.

    Personally I think you’d be much better off to find someone that has achieved success in your field and go get that person to be your coach. You’d probably find that they’d be prepared to do it for a lot less than a “miracles coach”.

    As far as my expereince with the miracles coaching program I had my first call the other week and was scheduled for my second call with the director the other day. Fortunately I got caught up on the phone and then had the wisdom to do some google searches on the company/program.

    They were asking me about my credit cards (which I have none). The other thing that got my alarm bells going is that I asked them what material and methods they were going to use to clear my limiting beliefs and they totally disregarded my question. No substance and all spin. And absolutely no value in terms of the first “free” half hour consultation (sales call).

    I’m so glad that I didn’t hand over any hard earned cash to this crowd of jokers. You can access the same “course” materials for a lot less. Go buy Joe’s book “The Attractor Factor” and really work the 5 steps. This is all the coach is going to get you to do anyway. All they are looking for is a big enough financial lever to get you committed enough to take the action.

    The way I look at it is if you’re not motivated enough to commit to working the “attractor factor” process for a good 90 days then forget about paying for a coach. If you think that they are going to do it all for you then you need to think again.

    If you’ve signed up for the Miracles Coaching program and been duped then obviously you’ve attracted it. If you’re reading this before making any financial commitments then you’re making some progress from being a person that gets taken advantage of to someone that creates their own life.

    So if you really are looking for a coach go find someone that charges $200 an hour and will take payments per session. That way you can see if they’re going to provide real value before handing over thousands of dollars.

    • Hi Damien,

      First of all I would like to thank you for visiting and taking the time to provide such a valuable comment. Comments are what make blogging worthwhile, and those that add value to the conversation, as yours does, are very much appreciated.

      I do have to take issue with one thing you said however:
      “If you’ve signed up for the Miracles Coaching program and been duped then obviously you’ve attracted it.”

      This is, to me, a disturbing mis-representation of what the law of attraction is all about. Though it is true that we are ultimately in charge of our own destiny, statements such are yours provide an (unjust) justification for Joe Vitale and his miracles coaches to take advantage of the weak and vulnerable.

      Just because there are people out there willing to be scammed, does not make it morally acceptable to scam them.

  • Wow! Thanks guys, I have just been through the above process and am gutted that it’s all lies!
    I had to call the credit card company to clear security for a £4000 payment! So glad I read this first.
    I will be telling them to cancel the payment and scrap the card too.
    Does anyone belive in coaching at all? I really thought it might help.

    • It was your comment that motivated me to reply to this thread in the first place. I thought I was just the one lucky guy who has had a great experience in coaching, and all the other commenters were the norm. Then I realized that no one who responded to this post is even in miracles coaching. It looks like someone paid $550 for ecommerce coaching, and the rest of the comments were from people who were unhappy with the sales approach. I’m going to ask my coach how often they have complaints from actual students, because my experience really has been great.

      • To my knowledge, e-commerce coaching is a component of the miracles coaching, not something separate. It seems pretty clear in her post that 550 was just a down payment and she had many additional monthly payments ahead of her.

        Also, there are at least two comments here from people who definitely are in in miracles coaching, and not to happy about it, including “Elena”, and “Steve Anderson”.

        You are more than welcome to provide your opinions here, even if it disagrees with mine, that’s what blog comments are for. However what you said here is a bit misleading. I think your feelings are genuine, but please be careful, when you start trying to discredit others experiences it only hurts your own credibility.

        • I actually paid over $5000 dollars for the same worthless e-commerce training that is worth if anything not more than $100.

          Thank you for exposing this scam.

        • I did the Miracles Coaching few years ago….I was at a low point in my life and felt I needed “a miracle” :) I had read 3-4 of Joe’ Vitale’s books and this coaching sounded like something that would take me where I wanted to go….It was “o-kay” , I did pay a lot of money for promises, I was sorta happy at the time with what the coach put me though–a lot of basic exercises, really, in self-esteem (which I was lacking at the time and hence was susceptible to something like this)….
          So, when my money ran out, so did the coaching! Did it help? NO! Not 1 bit!
          It wasn’t because of the coaching, but after that my feelings for Joe Vitale started going south, more and more things started being revealed to me of his practices; things started happening when I ordered stuff from him, also I ordered stuff from someone he “was partners/friends with”, and it never came, there was never a contact number or anything to say I never received it….That more than anything started changing my opinion of him…….Also, the constant stream of emails, ads to buy more stuff!! He has more stuff for you to spend money on than any of these type people, and if he doesn’t have the stuff, he has friends who you should buy from!
          Also, I got so sick of him telling me how great he was, with all the spiritual teachings he said he has, he certainly must have missed the classes on basic humility…….After the first couple of hundred emails I knew how “great” he was and all he did, didn’t need a reminder any more!
          Now, I think he is no better than that other famous huckster Kevin Trudeau….Both of them have written some pretty good stuff, informative, of help to some people—but there is a shadiness about them that becomes more apparent the smarter we become!
          Let me put it another way, when someone mentions how much they love Joe Vitale and buy his stuff, I know they have a self-esteem problem and are very prone to scam artists, as I once was…..

          • Oh yes, almost forgot to mention, $5000.00 down the drain….It was the LAST of my money at the time, and when I told them that he said “well, of course it is your decision, but think about, “if you don’t……….” and that’s what got me ;)

    • Yes, coaching does work and doesn’t have to be hyped up nor cost an arm and a leg. I coach and never charge thousands of dollars.

      I really enjoyed Bob Proctor’s You Were Born to Be Rich seminars free on youtube and you can google for the book in pdf form too so you can watch and read, oh and there is a free workbook too :)

  • Wow, thank you for your very straightforward review. I was contacted by a life coach and talked to him today ( yep he’s in Utah, yet he called me from my own California area code …? hmmm )… I knew it was going to lead to selling something, but $2000 ??? Well, he’s supposed to call back tomorrow because our “free consultation” ran over today, and I guess he’ll be disappointed to learn that not only have I no credit, but no checking account even !! Ha. How about you start coaching me, and when all that money starts rollin’ in, I’ll pay YOU !! It would be great to have a personal life coach, but from what I hear it’s not very personal once they get your money. Well, tomorrow will be the end of this for me — I guess I won’ t turn out to look like a very good candidate. I’ll make it clear up front that I can’t pay. Btw the guy who called me is Jarrod, and he’s very nice, of course … I hope all this Missing Secret stuff I ordered isn’t all bunk, I’m really putting a lot of stock in it. I’ve got nothing to lose, and it’s really helping me to believe in myself and the universe. Yet even as I listen to Joe’s CD’s I get the feeling he’s subtly trying to sell other material from Nightingale Conant, and there’s even a whole disc in the set just to promote other NC products.

    Jonathan, I did a search for Joe Vitale life coach reviews, and that’s how I found this blog. I will subscribe and I look forward to reading your past and future posts.

    Smiles! — Delan, Hayward, CA

    • Hi Delan,

      The way I see the secret is rather the same way I see the Bible. Just because a lot of people abuse the it for their own personal gain, does not mean that there is nothing of value to be gained by reading the Bible. And no, I am not religious.

      I am really happy to have to you as a reader, and glad you avoided the Miracles Coaching trap.

      -Jonathan

      • Hi Jonathan,

        Thank God I found your site just in time! I want to thank you and your readers for your comments. As we speak, I am awaiting the call from the “Director” to sign me up for coaching.

        Last Saturday, I did the $49 secret mirror video download and the $97 group coaching session which was interesting but devolved into a commercial on E-Commerce and ended with a “someone will call you about Miracles Coaching”

        Ten minutes later, I got the call. The screener was pleasant enough but basically made me feel like I couldn’t succeed without Miracles coaching. She inquired about my credit card debt and limits shortly into the call and when I told her I didn’t believe in credit card debt and didn’t have any she basically told me I would remain stuck where I am, so I should consider getting a card to invest in myself as the cost for coaching would be, $3-6K at the “Conservative” level and $12-16K at the “Aggressive Level” to get “CLEAR.” I told her I wanted to think about it , she made me promise to see about finding money to finance the coaching and we scheduled a call for Monday.

        Though she was very nice, the pressure was pretty overwhelming and left me sick all weekend doubting myself and wondering if I should go into debt to have the “Miracles coaches expedite the Law of Attraction working in my life. Something just feels wrong about doing that. I need to listen to my gut

        I really LOVED the comment from the reader who stated,”How ’bout when all that money starts rolling in, I pay you then!” Hah!

        When they call back I will just say “No Thanks” and use as my mantra: God helps those who help themselves.

        I’m new to your site and would appreciate any recommendations for good books or self development DVD’s to help me get past limiting thinking and into prosperity. Thank you so much!!!

  • I recently started Miracle Coaching and it is not at all what I have expected. I was promised help with finding the right direction to focus on, and when I got to the orientation session, I was told to choose between E-commerce and other few options. There is no integrating session nor adviser, and when I talk to those resource people, they get frustrated with me, all of them so far (except the very first one who could not figure out why some pages on their site won’t open and sent me links to download their materials). The very last one told me that it was their courtesy to do this, and it is my problem that I can not open their materials, not their. The coaching consists of 2 session with a coach 15 minutes each but unlimited email (can you see who is typing you replies?). Their resource center phone conversations is limited to 6 hours during one year, the total coaching time. So far, none of my questions were resolved and they keep telling me that whoever signed me up for this program should have told me how it works. I was told that I will have a coach, a person with who I will be talking to and who will help me to find out what area would be best for me. I paid 550 dollars down payment and will pay 183 per month additionally. It includes 177 finance charge.

    • Hi Elena,

      Thank you for taking the time to share your story. I am really sorry you got sucked in to this scam. It makes me feel very glad to know that my article is helping others to avoid the same fate.

      -Jonathan

      • Thanks for the info I just cancelled my 2nd call .. You save me alot of time and money .. I`ll stick to just reading the Secret .. It has helped me the most

      • Thank you for this article. I just got a phone call from one of Joe’s coaches. I must say, I was a bit sceptical and felt weird about answering personal questions from someone I don’t know. I’m supposed to get a phone call back on Monday and have an interview with the enrollment officer. At the end of the phone call, he asked me to verifiy how much is left on my credit call. He asked me that question during the phone call and I said I wasn’t sure (I don’t like giving private info to strangers). The whole thing just didn’t feel right to me and so I went on the internet and found your article. You reassured me and I thank you. I don’t believe maxing out credit cards when you already have money issues. So, on Monday, I will say that I do not want to talk to the enrollment officer. This is not for me. Thank you again!

          • I got this first call yesterday and the second call is scheduled today.
            I thought of looking for feedback outside of the Miracles Coaching website, and I came across your blog.

            Thanks! Hv decided not to spend a single penny on this scam now.

  • Joe Vitale’s so-called “coaching” is sold and delivered by a THIRD-PARTY company in Utah called, “Prosper Inc.” They hustle their “coaching” using the names of a bunch of other so-called “gurus.” Naturally, those “gurus” profit from this subcontracted “partnership.”

  • Boy, do I hate the “urgent sell”! Create a sense of urgency, and remember to use “the FUD factor,” instill fear, uncertainty, and doubt. Of course, they had meant to instill all that in you, not the other way ’round! Congratulations!

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